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13.5 oz Cone Mills Selvedge, Made in San Fransisco, and only $81? Kickstarter - Page 7

post #91 of 622

Dude! This is no fight. This is a forum! :D Just like you just did, we are also just giving our opinion. 

 

Tanks for your intel by the way. About that: Doesn't it depend on the product wether a limited run is more expensive or not?

post #92 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somar View Post

But while we're at it. There IS a increase on the promised price. This is false and very clever marketing.First you say: ''WE CREATE RAW DENIM FOR 81 DOLLAR!!!!!!!!!!'' ..... And the people will come. And when people have found you, you can ask more money for ''special items''.

There is no increase. You can get a pair of raw denim for $81, just as promised. This is no bait-and-switch.

If I have a store and advertise a computer for $300, but also carry one for $400, is that somehow false? I still have the one for $300 available, just as advertised. If you would rather have the $400 one, that's up to you.

Besides, most of the limited editions are sold out anyway. It's not like they only had 100 pair of the $81 denim and are trying to get everyone into the $99 offerings.
post #93 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mox C View Post
 
This is no bait-and-switch.
If I have a store and advertise a computer for $300, but also carry one for $400, is that somehow false?

 

Not at all! That's simply called running a business with good marketing.

 

But what if you have a plan: You are going to make a computer, that already have been sold for $300, and now you are going to sell it for... $81!! You make a nice video that says... $81!! You reach the media saying... $81!! Your Kickstarter project is a succes because of that number... $81. Now there are 20 days left and suddenly you think: You know what, I will add some colors. Maybe make it from another material (aluminum?).... but now these special editiond will be for $99. Now there will be somebody, somewhere, (on a forum like this, in a thread just like this one) who thinks: Heyyyyy, but that was not the plan?

 

You already said it yourself my friend ''If I have a store''. But this is not a store, this is a Kickstarter project. They should have waited for their store to open and THEN use this forms of marketing by adding other fabrics, colors, accesoiries, etc. It's obvious that they have a commercial mind: On Kickstarter they have a lot of attention and probably millions of views, so why not take this chance by adding the extra products now if you know (almost for sure) that they will sell out immediately.

 

Quote from Wikipedia:

Bait-and-switch is a form of fraud used in retail sales but also practiced in other contexts. First, customers are "baited" by merchants' advertising products or services at a low price; then customers discover the advertised goods are not available. Other products are "switched" for them; however, these items are often costlier.

 

Now please don't put words in my mouth. It may look like I'm heading there but that's not my intention, I never said this was bait-and-switch!! Then again, the only factor that keeps this from being bait-and-switch, is that the original low priced product is still available. wink.gif

 

Where it comes down to is this: They didn't do anything that is against the rules. They don't trick people with their product because (I red only one review) their quality is good and they are built verry well and neat. Their price of $81 and even $99 is extremely low, believe me I know this! I even know that they are still selling the original denim for $81. It's really tiring to have to say all this extras because I just know that if I don't, people will say things that probably have a lot to do with GUSTIN but nothing with this discussion, like: ''Yeahh..Well if you don't like it, don't buy it then!'' ,  ''$99 is still cheap, look at the other denim manufacturers'' , ''What are you complaning about? They aren't lying of tricking anybody'', ''There is nothing wrong with their quality or product'' , ''this is no bait-and-switch'' etc. etc. etc.

 

What I haven't heard is: ''Yeah so what, all companies are sneaky like this and they all would have done the same.'' Before somebody says it, here is already my answer: That's correct! They ALL do it... But I still get the freedom to point that out, right? What GUSTIN did was completely normal, but sneaky in my opinion. And it had an effect on ME. I study marketing and I know that Team GUSTIN are verry good at it, that is a fact. That is also why I have this strong opinion. What they are doing is sneaky and clever that's all I'm saying. You may call me a moralist on this subject biggrin.gif shog[1].gif

post #94 of 622

P.S. I sent them an e-mail with some questions and my opinion. Their reaction came with a lot of words and extra info that I didn't ask for. I didn't get an answer on my opinion and then simply: ''The answer is fabric prices.'' The explanation they gave came was just funny. I know enough!

 

They are gooooood! biggrin.gif

post #95 of 622
I guess we will just end up repeating ourselves, as we aren't going to change the other's mind. Just so you know, I get where you are coming from; I just have the opposite reaction and see it as a bonus rather than something sneaky.
post #96 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mox C View Post

I guess we will just end up repeating ourselves, as we aren't going to change the other's mind. Just so you know, I get where you are coming from; I just have the opposite reaction and see it as a bonus rather than something sneaky.

 

Thank you! And we are both right because it's a matter of opinion. Say, a different way of interpretation.

post #97 of 622
Another update today - "this batch of denim sold out in 40 seconds..."

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post #98 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo View Post

Another update today - "this batch of denim sold out in 40 seconds..."

Hehe. That's the one I managed to get. biggrin.gif
post #99 of 622
Somar you also have to take into account the supply and construction chain. These special denim are limited quantities and are made in separate batches. Most manufacturers will have set prices for the number of units made. Say that number is 100. If a company places a purchase order for less than 100 units, they will get 1 price. If they place a purchase order for 100 or more they will save money on every unit in the order.

The same also applies for denim by the yard. If you buy a certain number of square yardage you will get a discount. I would not be surprised if both of these factored into the higher denim price.
post #100 of 622
Just a heads-up:

"You wanted extra heavy selvage. We finally found it in the form of a great 18oz denim. We asked you for names. You responded, with some pretty amusing ideas, we must admit. Gustin Gonzo? The Champ? The Sledge Hammer? The Massive? Chairman of the Board? The Juuhachi? While we haven't finalized a name, we have decided that Monday is the day to start releasing this beast. As a token of our appreciation for such a big day and all your continued support, this 18oz fabric is coming your way sooner. Also, we're going to have a very decent quantity of it."

No photo of the fabric yet, but it will go here: http://www.weargustin.com/denims
post #101 of 622
I'm going to weigh in about the $99 vs. the $81 denim. The actual increase in cost that would justify this price increase is very little, and could easily come down to a combination of 1) more expensive materials; and 2) premiums for smaller batch production runs. The work involved in retooling the machines for a small batch costs as much to do for 20 pairs of jeans as for 2000, as for 20000. The cost in this case probably went up a few dollars, and they passed that onto the consumer with the usual markups. I don't see anything nefarious.

You could say "But then, why didn't they just increase the cost by a few dollars?" The answer is that it would have a significant impact on their retail margins going forward. At some point, they'd have to bite the bullet and increase the price, and the pain is going to be the same regardless. If I were Gustin, I'd do it off the bat, and risk a few guys bitching on a forum (it's a very big forum with a very big audience, but even here, the opinions are obviously mixed), then to take a financial hit, and still always have it in the back of their minds that they would have to increase their prices anyway, at some point. The payoff of trying to force everything to $81 is just not worth it by even the most superficial analysis.
post #102 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mox C View Post

Just a heads-up:

"You wanted extra heavy selvage. We finally found it in the form of a great 18oz denim. We asked you for names. You responded, with some pretty amusing ideas, we must admit. Gustin Gonzo? The Champ? The Sledge Hammer? The Massive? Chairman of the Board? The Juuhachi? While we haven't finalized a name, we have decided that Monday is the day to start releasing this beast. As a token of our appreciation for such a big day and all your continued support, this 18oz fabric is coming your way sooner. Also, we're going to have a very decent quantity of it."

No photo of the fabric yet, but it will go here: http://www.weargustin.com/denims

 

Man, they keep coming out with various denim yet, they can't work on different fits sooner? I want my slim/tapered fit!!! Wah wah wah. cry.gif

post #103 of 622
I think that has a lot to do with what LA Guy was saying. By keeping them all the same fit/pattern, it's simply a matter of substituting fabric. The whole process can stay the same with identical cuts, etc. 18oz vs. 12.5oz may require a little bit of adjustment, but I'm guessing that it would be minor and not like having a completely new pattern.
post #104 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

If I were Gustin, I'd do it off the bat, and risk a few guys bitching on a forum.

 

THANK YOU LA Guy!!!!! Thank you a 1000 times!!! Finally someone that agrees with the fact that, what GUSTIN did (bring up the price to $99 while promising $81) could make somebody (like ME! icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif) bitch on a forum. They probably made a small miscalculation in their business-plan. Now I want to say 10 other things to prove this point.... but I won't, because I already did this in my other posts.

post #105 of 622
I'm curious.. how does the sizing work?
You pick your size when you submit payment for $81?
Then what happens when the measurements of the jeans don't match the size charts they provided (which happens over half the time after going into production)?
You can't exchange the jeans you just bought because you bought a product that doesn't even exist yet?
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