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Official Wedding Attire Question/Answer/Picture Thread - Page 31

post #451 of 1665
Quote:
Originally Posted by aravenel View Post

Most full Windsors are giant, hideous knots. A big part of the appeal of a FIH is that bit of asymmetry. Granted it might not work on a cutaway collar, but aside from that, it works with just about everything. I never tie anything else.


Well, that one is clearly too big. I think the guy wearing it is on the shorter side. There is no single knot that is going to work with every guy, every collar and every situation. Same with lapels.
post #452 of 1665
Thread Starter 
Fwiw, the duke himself never tied a Windsor knot. The knot was invented in order imitate the thick knots that he could create because his ties were made of heavy silks with thick wool interlinings. If you like thicker knots, get thicker ties. Then tie them FiH.
post #453 of 1665
Exactly.

A full windsor is an abomination.

FIH, Double FIH, or half-windsor, if you must. Tie your knot a little looser if you want a bigger FIH knot, get thicker ties, etc.
post #454 of 1665
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

Fwiw, the duke himself never tied a Windsor knot. The knot was invented in order imitate the thick knots that he could create because his ties were made of heavy silks with thick wool interlinings. If you like thicker knots, get thicker ties. Then tie them FiH.
And run his tie short so to use the thicker part to make a bigger knot.
A small, well executed Windsor knot works well in certain situation, let's not start another groupthink myth..
post #455 of 1665
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcodalondra View Post

And run his tie short so to use the thicker part to make a bigger knot.
A small, well executed Windsor knot works well in certain situation, let's not start another groupthink myth..
post #456 of 1665
Thread Starter 
Are you saying that's a Windsor knot? Looks like a FiH to me.
post #457 of 1665
No,
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

Are you saying that's a Windsor knot? Looks like a FiH to me.
no was making two separate statements, one about DOW short front tie/bigger knot the second on a Well executed Windsor knot having is place. Also a Windsor knot not made too tight, could look like the one in the picture, but cannot call it from this picture, but have seen pictures of DoW wearing full windsor
post #458 of 1665
Thread Starter 
Really? Would be interested to see if you could link. I've seen some that are kind of ambiguous like this one:

http://www.harpersbazaar.com/fashion/fashion-articles/duchess-of-windsor-1966-interview-1010

But combined with quotes like this:

"Despite the knot's name, it was not, as is commonly held, invented by the Duke of Windsor. In his memoirs A Family Album, the Duke explains that it was his specially made thick ties, rather than a complicated knot, that produced the effect:

'The so-called ''Windsor knot'' in the tie was adopted in America at a later date. It was I believe regulation wear for G.I.s during the war, when American college boys adopted it too. But in fact I was in no way responsible for this. The knot to which Americans gave my name was a double knot in a narrow tie - a ''slim Jim'' as it is sometimes called. It is true that I myself have always preferred a large knot, as looking better than a small one, so during the nineteen twenties I devised, in conclave with Mr Sandford, a tie always of the broad variety which was reinforced by an extra thickness of material to produce this effect. As far as I know this particular fashion has never been followed in America or elsewhere.' "

http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~tmf20/tieknots.shtml

I assumed he did not use the Windsor knot.
post #459 of 1665
and I think at his wedding with his morning suit was spotting also a Windsor knot
post #460 of 1665
Thread Starter 
Not sure that's a Windsor...From the wedding definitely looks like a FiH:

http://www.bbcamerica.com/anglophenia/2011/03/wallis-and-edward-an-understated-wedding-for-a-controversial-couple/
post #461 of 1665
You can't use Merril Hoge as the reason why you say a windsor is an "abomination." He an extreme example of someone who intentionally goes for the biggest most obnoxious knot possible. It's something he has made his trademark. Almost all sportscasters for football and basketball dress loudly and ridiculously.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
post #462 of 1665
Are
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

Not sure that's a Windsor...From the wedding definitely looks like a FiH:

http://www.bbcamerica.com/anglophenia/2011/03/wallis-and-edward-an-understated-wedding-for-a-controversial-couple/
are we saying that you cannot do dimples with a Windsor knot ? The simmetrical triangular shape is an indication of Windsor knot. A 4 in hand will not triangulate, if I am explaining myself ,
post #463 of 1665
Thread Starter 
Which picture are you referring to? On the one you posted, I can only see one side of the knot, so I can't really tell if it's symmetric or not. In any case, even if you have found one picture of the Duke wearing his eponymous knot, it seems clear that at least most, if not all, of the time, he wore a FiH, and disowned the "Windsor" knot in his own writing. Of course it's still possible to believe these things and still admire what has come to be known as a Windsor knot.
post #464 of 1665
I think a lot of the ticker knots in his pictures with clear symmetrical sides are Windsor's. I posted the one that to me is ver clear, even from that angle, as it has a closer triangular knot. I often use windsor and half windsor as I learned them from my older brother as a 10 yo when he was 20 and in the Italian Navy Academy, where it was compulsory, however I often leave it looser and It looks exactly like those bigger knot mentioned above. There are also big FiH pictures of the duke, and some clear half windsor .

The point is that when done properly is a perfectly acceptable knot, especially in Europe, where 4 I h are kids uniform knots....
post #465 of 1665
Thread Starter 
The knot is certainly "acceptable". As to whether the Duke ever wore one, it doesn't seem clear to me at all from the one pic you posted. At his wedding he seems pretty clearly to be wearing a FiH knot. If the Duke's claim of having thicker ties is true, and I see no reason to doubt it, then a Windsor knot, especially a full one, would have been truly massive and unmistakeable. Based on everything I have read and seen, I still feel confident in my claim that he never wore a Windsor knot.
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