or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Brass Nails used to impede shoe wear
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Brass Nails used to impede shoe wear - Page 4

post #46 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba04 View Post

DFW -- what is your opinion on other (DIY or otherwise) options to prolong leather sole wear, such as the installation of a thin layer of protective material such as rubber directly onto the leather sole?

Opinion...marginal efficacy. My wife likes Topy on the bottom of her shoes, and for the ones that are "pump stitched" it's probably a good thing.

But for me...and again, my opinion only and probably skewed by what I do and have access to...the bottom line is that leather outsoles are meant to be worn away and replaced. At some point in time, the techniques that evolved and became preferred among bespoke makers were the ones that allowed a relatively easy and straightforward regimen of maintenance and repair. I expect to replace my outsoles on a regular basis.

It's part of the price for owning fine things. A philosophy of care and inspection and attention to detail...sounds like simple "awareness" to me.smile.gif

Of course, it becomes more difficult and expensive when the shoes can only be repaired by sending them back to the factory--a big "gotcha", that one.

But it begs the question...at least for me...if we cannot be bothered with the expense and hassle of leather soles, such that we have to cover them with rubber to protect the leather or add chunks of metal to compensate for inattention, then why not "skip the middleman", as who should say, and get rubber soles in the first place? Extend that perspective to its logical outcome and entirely rubber or vinyl shoes are the only rational choice.

That or steel overshoes.

And don't get me started on the way that gait affects wear patterns. nest.gif

I guess it all comes down to priorities and what works for you.

--
post #47 of 89
Quote:
Lasting tacks--not much, I don't believe, either in iron or brass. The heads are too thin to withstand much abrasion, yet too wide to allow close placement of the tacks.

Escutcheon pins with the head cut off, or what's known as an "extra brass clinching nail" might work, all though the latter are square in cross section.
 
....
 
But of all the options available to us--iron shoe nails, lasting tacks(brass or iron), maple pegs, etc., even metal or plastic toe plates, the brass nails are the most appropriate and most aesthetic and, simultaneously, the most effective solution yet found.

How about these, at 14 or 16 gauge, 3/4 inch?

 

http://www.matoska.com/cgibin/gencat.cgi?AC=gencat&PC=14&ST=0&RS=NULL&S1S2=68%2CNULL

 

How close together do they have to be to do the job?

 

 

Quote:
One of the things that I do, however is use a pegging awl to pre-hole the heel or sole. Trying to drive a brass nail into a quality leather toplift is begging for a bend.

 

 

Here at amateur hour, I was planning on either pre drilling holes, or using a thin iron nail to make the starting hole.

 

I don't have the guts to try this on the toe piece, too much risk of sending a nail in the wrong place. I think it will be hard to ruin the heels with a few nails, so we will see.

 

Thanks to everyone who got DWF interested enough to keep coming back with more information. Has anyone collected his shoe posts so we can read them all?


Edited by dbhdnhdbh - 1/2/13 at 9:13am
post #48 of 89
The 16 gauge would probably be OK if you clipped off the heads...or didn't --you're not looking for the finesse of a new bespoke shoe after all.

As for spacing, I'd allow a little more than 1/16" between them. Too close and the leather is damaged and will abrade out from around the nail too quickly. Too far apart and they lose effectiveness.

The 18 gauge might work in the forepart. Especially with an iron repair jack/last.

PS...it can help if the leather is moist when the nails are driven.
post #49 of 89

dwf . . . .

 

could you take a look @ a pair i just received & give me an opinion if the nails at the toe are accomplishing anything or just decorative ?

700

post #50 of 89
Quote:
you're not looking for the finesse of a new bespoke shoe after all.

 

You got that right. I would not even experiment on, what are for me, middle of the road RTW. If I ever could afford bespoke shoes, let alone DWF creations, I would absolutely send them to the "factory" for all work. I would probably be afraid to polish, or for that matter wear them. I might put them in a glass case and marvel at the workmanship. I would probably be about as likely to walk on the ground in them as I would use a fine painting as a table cloth.

 

I doubt I am going to manage 1/16" spacing. I have some beater shoes that are the next up for experimentation. If it turns out easy and reliable enough that my fellow tinkerers will be interested,  'll post results.

 

Right now my favorite shoes are vintage. I love them, but they are also old, and their market value is limited. Together, these make me reluctant to pay a lot to have them resoled, so I am interested in prolonging the resole intervals. I have also had bad luck with cobblers doing more simple repairs. This makes me gun shy about giving a prized pair of shoes to someone who will work cheap, and hesitant to spend the money for some place like B Nelson. Someday I may get at least some fine RTW, and perhaps spring for brass nails from the start.

post #51 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbhdnhdbh View Post

 

You got that right. I would not even experiment on, what are for me, middle of the road RTW. If I ever could afford bespoke shoes, let alone DWF creations, I would absolutely send them to the "factory" for all work. I would probably be afraid to polish, or for that matter wear them. I might put them in a glass case and marvel at the workmanship. I would probably be about as likely to walk on the ground in them as I would use a fine painting as a table cloth.

 

I doubt I am going to manage 1/16" spacing. I have some beater shoes that are the next up for experimentation. If it turns out easy and reliable enough that my fellow tinkerers will be interested,  'll post results.

 

Right now my favorite shoes are vintage. I love them, but they are also old, and their market value is limited. Together, these make me reluctant to pay a lot to have them resoled, so I am interested in prolonging the resole intervals. I have also had bad luck with cobblers doing more simple repairs. This makes me gun shy about giving a prized pair of shoes to someone who will work cheap, and hesitant to spend the money for some place like B Nelson. Someday I may get at least some fine RTW, and perhaps spring for brass nails from the start.

 

  wonder if a brass screw would work

post #52 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoGent View Post

dwf . . . .

could you take a look @ a pair i just received & give me an opinion if the nails at the toe are accomplishing anything or just decorative ?
700

More than decorative. Again, the whole raison d'etre of leather soles is that they will wear away...while protecting your feet...and can be replaced. The nails in the toe will retard wear...they will not prevent it.

--
Edited by DWFII - 1/2/13 at 10:26am
post #53 of 89
Thread Starter 

Retarding is all that I am looking for. I am mainly aiming to resole my shoe when the sole is indeed reasonably worn, and not simply because the toe area is close to the welt (while the remainder of the sole is relatively fresh).

 

Below is a poor picture of what started me on this journey (I accepted my cobbler's advice, and was unsatisfied with the overall grace of the results).

 

1000

 

 

Certainly appreciate the distinction between a shoemaker and a cobbler, and accepting a leather soled shoe for what it is.


Edited by lucidream - 1/2/13 at 11:19am
post #54 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


More than decorative. Again, the whole raison d'etre of leather soles is that they will wear away...while protecting your feet...and can be replaced. The nails in the toe will retard wear...they will not prevent it.
--

 

  thanks. i would have thunk they would be placed closer to the front edge, more like a toe 'tap',  to be really beneficial.

post #55 of 89
Thread Starter 

Most likely on the inside of the seam, in order to avoid the welt.

post #56 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


Opinion...marginal efficacy. My wife likes Topy on the bottom of her shoes, and for the ones that are "pump stitched" it's probably a good thing.
But for me...and again, my opinion only and probably skewed by what I do and have access to...the bottom line is that leather outsoles are meant to be worn away and replaced. At some point in time, the techniques that evolved and became preferred among bespoke makers were the ones that allowed a relatively easy and straightforward regimen of maintenance and repair. I expect to replace my outsoles on a regular basis.
It's part of the price for owning fine things. A philosophy of care and inspection and attention to detail...sounds like simple "awareness" to me.smile.gif
Of course, it becomes more difficult and expensive when the shoes can only be repaired by sending them back to the factory--a big "gotcha", that one.
But it begs the question...at least for me...if we cannot be bothered with the expense and hassle of leather soles, such that we have to cover them with rubber to protect the leather or add chunks of metal to compensate for inattention, then why not "skip the middleman", as who should say, and get rubber soles in the first place? Extend that perspective to its logical outcome and entirely rubber or vinyl shoes are the only rational choice.
That or steel overshoes.

 


And don't get me started on the way that gait affects wear patterns. nest.gif
I guess it all comes down to priorities and what works for you.
--

 

What would be the best method to maintain relatively even sole wear to prevent resoling prior to getting/close to getting a hole at the ball of the shoes?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


Well of course it depends on the screws used and the depth to which the toe plate has been inset. But I've never seen a toe plate where the screws did not penetrate the insole...sometimes, often, cutting the inseam.
How thick is a toe plate? How thick is a leather outsole? How deep into solid material do the screws have to go to provide a secure anchor?
Toe plates vary in thickness but an eighth inch is probably about average.
Thick outsoles (not often seen on high end dress shoes) are 12 iron--one quarter inch thick. To inset a toe plate the outsole must be ground away to a depth of one eighth inch...and in the process cutting and removing much of the stitching that holds the outsole in place.
The insole may be as little as one eighth of an inch thick...if it is leather...and the screws will need to penetrate it almost entirely to hold the toe plate and secure the toe of the outsole as well as the lost stitching did.
And worst of all the screws invariably...almost of necessity...end up in the same line/vicinity as the inseam--the seam that holds the welt in place.

 

Where exactly is the inseam for handwelted shoes and for gemmed shoes?  On the feather, outside edge of the feather or inside edge?  And are you suggesting toe plates are not good for the insole?  What about a row or two nails at the toe?

 

worship.gif

post #57 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by NORE View Post

Fresh from a resole: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
asresole004.jpg
asresole005.jpg
asresole006.jpg Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
asresole007.jpg
asresole008.jpg
asresole009.jpg
asresole010.jpg
asresole011.jpg
asresole012.jpg
post #58 of 89
Thread Starter 

Love the toe in first picture. Any background anecdote to add, NORE?

post #59 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by NORE View Post
 

 

  wow. who did THAT piece of work ?

post #60 of 89
Thread Starter 

I found another reference on this website today:

 

http://www.permanentstyle.co.uk/2010_11_01_archive.html

 

"Two rows of brads (nails) in the toe to [b]protect against wear there[/b] – customers can also opt for a countersunk toe plate."

 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Classic Menswear
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Brass Nails used to impede shoe wear