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Growing Rape Scandal at UVA - Page 4

post #46 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post


BTW, the point you make about the issue of rape when both partners are drunk is an interesting one. I am not sure how you apportion responsibility when two people are very dis-inhibited (effectively, reverting to ungoverned ids) so that the man becomes more aggressive than usual, but perhaps as aggressive as his body wants him to be, and the woman becomes more receptive than usual, but perhaps as receptive as her body wants her to be. Maybe the solution is to keep them perpetually drunk so they are always happy with the outcome (Harvey will like this).

Well here's my take on it: the accused isn't absolved of responsibility for his actions because he was drunk (maybe mitigated in some cases), so by what logic should he take on responsibility for the accuser's actions because the accuser is drunk? Like I said earlier, if she is so out of it that she can't say "no" or "stop", and the alleged rapist knew that and had sex with her anyway, then sure, that is undoubtedly rape. But that's difficult to prove, which is part of why it's completely reasonable to tell women, especially college aged ones, not to get wasted with guys that they don't have reason to trust, to go out in groups, not to be alone with young males, etc. There's a feminist meme that telling women that is shifting the blame to the victim, but it's really just common sense. It's no different than telling people to lock their doors so they don't get burglarized.
post #47 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchausen View Post

Well here's my take on it: the accused isn't absolved of responsibility for his actions because he was drunk (maybe mitigated in some cases), so by what logic should he take on responsibility for the accuser's actions because the accuser is drunk? Like I said earlier, if she is so out of it that she can't say "no" or "stop", and the alleged rapist knew that and had sex with her anyway, then sure, that is undoubtedly rape. But that's difficult to prove, which is part of why it's completely reasonable to tell women, especially college aged ones, not to get wasted with guys that they don't have reason to trust, to go out in groups, not to be alone with young males, etc. There's a feminist meme that telling women that is shifting the blame to the victim, but it's really just common sense. It's no different than telling people to lock their doors so they don't get burglarized.

I was talking to a friend of mine who has a thirteen year old son (eighth grader). Before taking his son and friends to a school event on a Saturday night, he lectures the whole group on not letting themselves be caught alone with a girl, especially if they have been drinking, because they will never be able to prove what happened and if they are accused of anything improper, their lives will be ruined. I was shocked - first because he is giving advice on that topic to other people's kids and second because I can't believe that kids grow up in a world where this is a real issue (my daughter is the same age, though this is several States away).
post #48 of 175
I worry that, knowing teenage boys, they will take this as a suggestion that girls really like to be with two guys at once, and that way they will have a really good alibi.
post #49 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

I was talking to a friend of mine who has a thirteen year old son (eighth grader). Before taking his son and friends to a school event on a Saturday night, he lectures the whole group on not letting themselves be caught alone with a girl, especially if they have been drinking, because they will never be able to prove what happened and if they are accused of anything improper, their lives will be ruined. I was shocked - first because he is giving advice on that topic to other people's kids and second because I can't believe that kids grow up in a world where this is a real issue (my daughter is the same age, though this is several States away).

He's either a lawyer or it happened to him. Either way he's wrong that their life is ruined as this article illustrates. Likely you'll get away with it.
post #50 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsstillmatt View Post

I worry that, knowing teenage boys, they will take this as a suggestion that girls really like to be with two guys at once, and that way they will have a really good alibi.
I wondered whether the message he was giving was - only have sex in public or in groups- and whether that was really practical. Another guy at the table brought up the Derek Jeter practice, which is sensible, though cold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by texas_jack View Post

He's either a lawyer or it happened to him. Either way he's wrong that their life is ruined as this article illustrates. Likely you'll get away with it.
yes
post #51 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

I was talking to a friend of mine who has a thirteen year old son (eighth grader). Before taking his son and friends to a school event on a Saturday night, he lectures the whole group on not letting themselves be caught alone with a girl, especially if they have been drinking, because they will never be able to prove what happened and if they are accused of anything improper, their lives will be ruined. I was shocked - first because he is giving advice on that topic to other people's kids and second because I can't believe that kids grow up in a world where this is a real issue (my daughter is the same age, though this is several States away).

If I had a son I would give him the same advice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by texas_jack View Post

He's either a lawyer or it happened to him. Either way he's wrong that their life is ruined as this article illustrates. Likely you'll get away with it.

Depends on what you mean by "get away with it". The investigation no doubt cost this guy a great deal of time and money, and to some people he will always be a rapist, no matter what the evidence says/.
post #52 of 175
Does anyone else remember the, "As we protect the public from drunk drivers so must we protect women from the driver of a drunk penis" schtick of the early 90s feminists? It always gave me a mental image of a little steering wheel on my pole.
post #53 of 175
post #54 of 175

How can that rapist say that the woman and the newspaper defamed him?
post #55 of 175
W
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarathustra View Post

How can that rapist say that the woman and the newspaper defamed him?

Well the newspaper would probably be protected, but the girl lied about him raping her. That's probably per se defamation even down south.
post #56 of 175
He is going to be pretty hard put to prove that she lied. Rape is hard to prove and even harder to disprove. The post script said the guy already dropped the suit, and I can imagine why. I suspect he filed the suit so he could get a competing story in the paper.
post #57 of 175
Now this guy, on the other hand, might actually win.

http://gawker.com/5968551/is-this-ryan-lanza-the-connecticut-school-shooter
post #58 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchausen View Post

He is going to be pretty hard put to prove that she lied. Rape is hard to prove and even harder to disprove. The post script said the guy already dropped the suit, and I can imagine why. I suspect he filed the suit so he could get a competing story in the paper.

Normally I'd agree, but this girl is so batshit insane she couldn't even get a cop to believe her under the probable cause standard. She's toast

Of course she's also likely judgment proof so good luck collecting any money from her.
post #59 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal View Post

Unless there was indeed a history of rape and sexual assault, know to the University, that was ignored or intentionally silenced. Then it is a scandal.
I'm not sure I agree with a preponderance of the evidence standard, though. I guess it depends what exactly is being decided using that standard. If it is only whether or not to investigate the matter further than I'm fine with it.
I'm generally curious what % of charges of sexual assault brought by women turn out to be falsified. I'd wager it is very, very low.

There are no reliably objective statistics on false reporting. It can be as low as 2% or as high as 20%. And again everyone seems to be forgetting that there's often a distinction between sexual assault and rape. If I walk up and grab Teger's cock over his pants that probably qualifies as sexual assault but it's certainly not rape.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

I don't see how you could possibly know that. But I can tell that very few reported rapes result in convictions.

Where did you get that from? My anecdotal experience is exactly the opposite.

EDIT - Which is not to besmirch my ability as a defense lawyer. I've won more than I've lost, I'll say that much. But I'm really good.
post #60 of 175
Unfortunately, this story hits a little too close to home for me, so I won't go too much into detail. As a current UVa student, I have little doubt as to the veracity of these stories: UVa has a habit of throwing scandals under the rug to preserve its "reputation." The girl in the anonymous essay was drugged; of that I have no question in my mind. For the sake of privacy, I won't go into details of why I know this. I have actually had several acquaintances fall victim to sexual assault, and the responses from the University were almost-always underwhelming to the point of ridicule. Quite simply, the University is absolutely not doing enough to combat sexual assault.

You can debate the intricacies of sexual assault and gender roles all you want, but, trust me on this one, you shouldn't doubt the truth of this particular girl's story. I'm sorry for the slightly rambling nature of my response, but it's a touchy issue for me.
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