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Growing Rape Scandal at UVA - Page 3

post #31 of 175
But Harvey, assumption of innocence and closely examining the accuser's testimony in light of the evidence just contributes to rape culture. Women need to feel comfortable accusing men of rape, whether it actually happened or not.
post #32 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teger View Post

It's not so much that I believe her story -- maybe she was raped, maybe she wasn't -- but that I believe her description of the administrative procedure she went through, and that the University did what they could to both prevent her from originally reporting the crime, as well as to come down a decision that wouldn't necessitate further action on their part.
I believe this for a couple reasons:
1. There's been a lot of reluctance amont Universities nationwide to confront and deal with sexual assault
2. The particular culture at UVa
3. The history of issues that the school has had with reporting sexual assault and rape
4. The fact that her story was first revealed in the context of an investigation by the Office of Civil Rights, which had previously had issues with UVa's policies


Totally fine! I don't even disagree with you there. But riddle me this - how will lowering the standard of evidence required to expel rapists solve any of those issues?
post #33 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchausen View Post

But Harvey, assumption of innocence and closely examining the accuser's testimony in light of the evidence just contributes to rape culture. Women need to feel comfortable accusing men of rape, whether it actually happened or not.


Even if the rape didn't happen, the hegemonic nature of violent patriarchy imbues a narrative of violence and violation of the woman; thus the woman remains the victim of a rape roughly equivalent to the physical act itself.

Lighthouse
Monsters Unmasked: Feminism in the Era of Subconscious Misogyny
2012
post #34 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchausen View Post

But Harvey, assumption of innocence and closely examining the accuser's testimony in light of the evidence just contributes to rape culture. Women need to feel comfortable accusing men of rape, whether it actually happened or not.


Much makes a good point. Perhaps I'm wrong.
post #35 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post

Women would be well served to learn the martial arts starting around age 9.

Doesn't really do much good if your drugged or drunk.
post #36 of 175
In the e-mail she mentioned this story: http://amherststudent.amherst.edu/?q=article/2012/10/17/account-sexual-assault-amherst-college

[Summary: the girl claims she was raped then involuntarily committed for five days for telling a school counselor "how genuinely sad I was at Amherst, how much I wanted to leave, and how scared I was on a daily basis. 'I should just drink darkroom developer or something…'" Basically it's a long explanation of why she dropped out of college years after the fact.
post #37 of 175
Involuntarily committed. Either further evidence of a conspiracy or further evidence she's batshit insane. I can't figure out which.
post #38 of 175
It's so easy to have someone involuntarily committed. And of course a university has every reason to do that to cover up a rape. She's lucky they didn't murder her with their minds.
post #39 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsstillmatt View Post

This doesn't seem like a scandal as much as it seems like an activist using media blackmail to push bad policy on a school.

Unless there was indeed a history of rape and sexual assault, know to the University, that was ignored or intentionally silenced. Then it is a scandal.

I'm not sure I agree with a preponderance of the evidence standard, though. I guess it depends what exactly is being decided using that standard. If it is only whether or not to investigate the matter further than I'm fine with it.

I'm generally curious what % of charges of sexual assault brought by women turn out to be falsified. I'd wager it is very, very low.
post #40 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchausen View Post

Because RAAAAAAPE! 1 IN 4 WOMEN ARE RAPED! WOMEN! RAPED! CULTURE OF RAPE! RAAAAAAAPE!

Give me a fucking break. Asshole.
post #41 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal View Post

I'm generally curious what % of charges of sexual assault brought by women turn out to be falsified. I'd wager it is very, very low.

I'd be curious. The rape the woman describes sounds pretty forceful, the physical sort of rape we see depicted in so many movies. I'd estimate the "false reports" of this are relatively low as a) the woman has likely watched enough Law & Order to know it's going to be tough to create (and prove) a consistent story and b) you really have to hate someone to fabricate.

Things like "being roofied" though, are usually bunk. For example, one Australian study found that fewer than 20% of women who reported being roofied had any trace of drugs in their system (including marijuana). Of course, if a girl is so drunk she feels like she's been roofied the next day, you pretty much are raping her as she lacks the ability to give consent. What complicates the ethics is that typically the other partner in this scenario is also so drunk that he's incapable of making his own good decisions.
post #42 of 175
It seems obvious to me from reading her account that the professors or deans or whoever they were decided she was just drunk. And he might have even been mean to her afterwards. I guess it's okay to stick to old fashioned ideas of paternalistic chivalry when you put the responsibility for two drunk kids having sex on the boy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal View Post

I'm generally curious what % of charges of sexual assault brought by women turn out to be falsified. I'd wager it is very, very low.

I don't see how you could possibly know that. But I can tell that very few reported rapes result in convictions.

Maybe that's why feminists feel like women need at least three bites at the apple. Can't prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt for a unanimous jury? How 'bout a civil suit by a preponderance of the evidence? Couldn't do that either? So then there's this administrative proceeding where he gets a "jury" of left-wing professors, to kick him out of college. Maybe what they really need are separate trials to kick the student out of each individual class he's taking. She might have a chance to win at least one of those and get some justice.
post #43 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLMountainMan View Post

Of course, if a girl is so drunk she feels like she's been roofied the next day, you pretty much are raping her as she lacks the ability to give consent. What complicates the ethics is that typically the other partner in this scenario is also so drunk that he's incapable of making his own good decisions.

If she's so drunk that she can't fight back or resist (i.e. she's nearly passed out) then yeah. If she's just drunk and making foolish decisions, then no. A lot of the rape hysteria likes to confuse the two issues so the woman has a few drinks and fucks some guy and all of a sudden he's a rapist based on her subjective, after the fact judgment.
post #44 of 175
It just occurred to me that the DMV doesn't provide any process for victims can get their rapist's driver's license taken away. Somebody call Gloria Allred!
post #45 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLMountainMan View Post

I'd be curious. The rape the woman describes sounds pretty forceful, the physical sort of rape we see depicted in so many movies. I'd estimate the "false reports" of this are relatively low as a) the woman has likely watched enough Law & Order to know it's going to be tough to create (and prove) a consistent story and b) you really have to hate someone to fabricate.
Things like "being roofied" though, are usually bunk. For example, one Australian study found that fewer than 20% of women who reported being roofied had any trace of drugs in their system (including marijuana). Of course, if a girl is so drunk she feels like she's been roofied the next day, you pretty much are raping her as she lacks the ability to give consent. What complicates the ethics is that typically the other partner in this scenario is also so drunk that he's incapable of making his own good decisions.
From what I read of her account, you can't tell what happened and there is nothing to indicate she was coerced with force. In fact, even she can't tell what happens (or doesn't). According to her account, he gave her a beer and then she remembers nothing until she woke up naked. She then went home and concluded she was raped. Certainly, if he drugged her unconscious, then she was raped regardless of whether she was forcibly coerced (or you could just as easily say that is forcible coercion). But 1) she doesn't accuse him of drugging her, maybe because 2) it doesn't sound like she got a drug test to verify she was drugged.
Also, she says she woke up "in pain" but it isn't explained how or why? Is that from the (rough or first) sex, or from being tossed and dragged around while comatose, or because she was so drunk she fell down a flight of stairs.

BTW, the point you make about the issue of rape when both partners are drunk is an interesting one. I am not sure how you apportion responsibility when two people are very dis-inhibited (effectively, reverting to ungoverned ids) so that the man becomes more aggressive than usual, but perhaps as aggressive as his body wants him to be, and the woman becomes more receptive than usual, but perhaps as receptive as her body wants her to be. Maybe the solution is to keep them perpetually drunk so they are always happy with the outcome (Harvey will like this).
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