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Naked JD - What to do? - Page 4

post #46 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheessus View Post

yerfdog and novaguy- thanks so much for those suggestions! never heard of that site before and law enforcement?....interesting. ill definitely do some more research on that. actually getting to discuss this with other people has reinvigorated me. thanks again to everyone.

 

You just gotta be create and be open to anything. Your JD is a sunk cost at this point, but people will ask questions if you haven't passed the bar. Bottom line is, now that you have a JD, you have to pass the bar to clear up any potential questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sns23 View Post


I hardly think 4 hours per day is too much. Just top of the food chain.


It's too much if you are scoring a 178...

post #47 of 52

I agree with the person immediately above that some individuals will ask questions for not passing the Bar. However, I think that is more relevant to the legal field. If he is seeking a non-legal career, it is irrelevant whether he is licensed or not. 

 

I can tell you that bias does exist for not passing the Bar or failing it a few times. A friend of mine failed and is currently unemployed, and he says that it is often brought up during interviews. It absolutely pisses him off.

post #48 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoeShopperJ View Post

I agree with the person immediately above that some individuals will ask questions for not passing the Bar. However, I think that is more relevant to the legal field. If he is seeking a non-legal career, it is irrelevant whether he is licensed or not. 

I can tell you that bias does exist for not passing the Bar or failing it a few times. A friend of mine failed and is currently unemployed, and he says that it is often brought up during interviews. It absolutely pisses him off.

A think the question of "Did you pass the bar," is a natural question when one knows that you went to law school
post #49 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon8 View Post


A think the question of "Did you pass the bar," is a natural question when one knows that you went to law school

 

That is not the question ( or issue, really). An attorney's résumé or cv will include---or should include---the date of graduation from law school and date of admission to the Bar. It may also include court admissions if the attorney meets the requirements and is admitted to practice before certain courts, such as federal court (general bar, trial bar, the tax court, etc.).

 

 

The issue is the bias against individuals for failure to pass the Bar. If someone is pursuing a legal career and failed the Bar, that person is likely to encounter additional obstacles. The bias does exist; it should not exist. I do not think someone is particularly smarter than someone else for having passed (or failed) the Bar. It is nevertheless a good indication, in my opinion, of discipline, study skills, organization, commitment, and memorization. 

 

 

When employers have a legal position open that requires a law license and receive literally stacks of résumés, the individuals who failed the Bar will be at a distinct disadvantage in the perception of most employers. 

post #50 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoeShopperJ View Post

That is not the question ( or issue, really). An attorney's résumé or cv will include---or should include---the date of graduation from law school and date of admission to the Bar. It may also include court admissions if the attorney meets the requirements and is admitted to practice before certain courts, such as federal court (general bar, trial bar, the tax court, etc.).


The issue is the bias against individuals for failure to pass the Bar. If someone is pursuing a legal career and failed the Bar, that person is likely to encounter additional obstacles. The bias does exist; it should not exist. I do not think someone is particularly smarter than someone else for having passed (or failed) the Bar. It is nevertheless a good indication, in my opinion, of discipline, study skills, organization, commitment, and memorization. 


When employers have a legal position open that requires a law license and receive literally stacks of résumés, the individuals who failed the Bar will be at a distinct disadvantage in the perception of most employers. 

If there is a position that requires a law license no question that the person who hasn't passed the bar will be disadvantaged. As a matter of fact, they don't even meet he qualifications.

You're correct that people that pass the bar is not smarter than those that have not. The bias exist because it is the nature of the beast. This occurs in all professions not just law. Accounts would hire a CPA than a non-CPA for certain positions.
post #51 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon8 View Post


If there is a position that requires a law license no question that the person who hasn't passed the bar will be disadvantaged. As a matter of fact, they don't even meet he qualifications.
You're correct that people that pass the bar is not smarter than those that have not. The bias exist because it is the nature of the beast. This occurs in all professions not just law. Accounts would hire a CPA than a non-CPA for certain positions.

 

Right - I mean individuals applying for a position that requires a license and have failed the Bar once or a few times.

 

 

In all seriousness, one reason why I bother to talk about the legal profession is because of the many and varied misconceptions. It is an incredibly competitive and challenging field. Frankly, I do not think most people are up to it. Notwithstanding that, the barriers and costs of entry are out of proportion to the rewards, at least economically/financially. It is heartbreaking that people are told that spending in excess of 120k---the real costs of lost earnings during law school and interest around 300k---will result in a wide range of job opportunities.

 

Frankly, in my opinion, a J.D. can and does limit career opportunities. I just try to share a few warnings with individuals considering entering this field. If you cannot finance your legal education on your own, then attending law school is an enormously poor financial decision. You should also have a network of clients (entities and individuals) prior to attending. 

 

Other industries worth considering where the barriers and costs of entry are not nearly as high or burdensome http://www.cnbc.com/id/100271500

  • financial services (banking, hedge funds, private equity, etc.);
  • manufacturing;
  • transportation;
  • logistics;
  • tech; and
  • energy.

 

No accountability of law schools exits. The ABA accredits law schools and has done nothing with the crisis (high costs of law school and very limited opportunities that a J.D. provides). Law School Transparency is a resource that everyone should review before even considering law school: http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/. 

 

To focus on the topic at hand, I think someone who has failed the Bar is already at a disadvantage that should not be discounted in this market. The dire market for legal jobs is not going to improve for the foreseeable future. In my opinion, and I wish this were not my opinion (believe it or not), there are much better career opportunities outside of law such as the aforementioned. Frankly, expending more time and resources to pass the Bar are going to result in more costs and challenges when licensed (to acquire practical experience, licensing fees, CLE, marketing, networking, etc.).

post #52 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoeShopperJ View Post

Right - I mean individuals applying for a position that requires a license and have failed the Bar once or a few times.


In all seriousness, one reason why I bother to talk about the legal profession is because of the many and varied misconceptions. It is an incredibly competitive and challenging field. Frankly, I do not think most people are up to it. Notwithstanding that, the barriers and costs of entry are out of proportion to the rewards, at least economically/financially. It is heartbreaking that people are told that spending in excess of 120k---the real costs of lost earnings during law school and interest around 300k---will result in a wide range of job opportunities.

Frankly, in my opinion, a J.D. can and does limit career opportunities. I just try to share a few warnings with individuals considering entering this field. If you cannot finance your legal education on your own, then attending law school is an enormously poor financial decision. You should also have a network of clients (entities and individuals) prior to attending. 

Other industries worth considering where the barriers and costs of entry are not nearly as high or burdensome http://www.cnbc.com/id/100271500
  • financial services (banking, hedge funds, private equity, etc.);
  • manufacturing;
  • transportation;
  • logistics;
  • tech; and
  • energy.

No accountability of law schools exits. The ABA accredits law schools and has done nothing with the crisis (high costs of law school and very limited opportunities that a J.D. provides). Law School Transparency is a resource that everyone should review before even considering law school: http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/. 

To focus on the topic at hand, I think someone who has failed the Bar is already at a disadvantage that should not be discounted in this market. The dire market for legal jobs is not going to improve for the foreseeable future. In my opinion, and I wish this were not my opinion (believe it or not), there are much better career opportunities outside of law such as the aforementioned. Frankly, expending more time and resources to pass the Bar are going to result in more costs and challenges when licensed (to acquire practical experience, licensing fees, CLE, marketing, networking, etc.).

I think its like this in every industry. Getting a MBA will not necesarily get you into IB, consulting, VC. I think its who you know thats more important but certainly having the "basic requirements" help.

I knew someone who applied for a position who was more than qualified for as she was performing the job already but in a different capacity. Her boss, the VP said no to her and all the applicants but his boss said "hire this (another) person because we went to he same school."
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