P90x - Page 3

Spot on.

I did the Yoga workout yesterday and that might be the hardest thing I've done yet.

Well, the thing is, the basic principles of weight training/muscle gain/fat loss are really not that complicated and can readily be researched and understood for free. When some program or product claims dramatic, new, or otherwise unattainable results, it almost never means that the program or product is inherently better, it just means that someone is trying to make a buck.

In the present case, I would say that this p90x thing is a bad idea. "Muscle confusion" is a retarded idea. Sure, if you're constantly changing things, you'll never plateau, but you'll also never progress. Progress is made by approaching and breaking plateaus, not by avoiding them entirely. This program will most likely destroy your strength, especially if you're in a significant calorie deficit. If you want to cut, I would suggest lifting heavy weights (90% of 1RM) to maintain strength, doing appreciable amounts of cardio, and maintaining a calorie deficit while getting about 1-1.5g of protein/lb of bodyweight.

I would think that P90x would be especially bad for beginners (not saying you are one) because the constant "confusion" will never allow them to achieve neural efficiency and hence strength on a small group of basic lifts, which is what they are primarily lacking.

I haven't done p90x or really read about it that much, but from a Crossfit standpoint I can make a comment since I'm assuming they're related in theory. Constantly changing exercises won't cause you to avoid progress, it'll just be more varied to allow full body development as opposed to a pure strength routine. Of course if you follow something like Starting Strength, a 5x5 or any other pure strength building routine then, yes, p90x would have less in the way of progress from a pure strength point of view. There's more to fitness however, and depending on which kool-aide you drink it involves absolute/dynamic strength, flexibility, cardio, body comp, etc etc. In reality, there's a lot more benefit from doing something like p90x or crossfit versus a pure strength routine unless what you want is strength. Look at what your goals are and choose accordingly as with everything.

There is no need to get basic strength in the basic lifts before moving onto another program. Most of the initial big gains in beginners are due to the increased amount of muscle fibers recruited after using them in a new lift. (I'm pretty sure this is what you were alluding to so it might be redundant but whatever). Anyways, with any new program like crossfit or p90x a beginner is suggested to take a month at the outset so that they can learn all the movements that are going to be used. This time period allows them to learn the lifts and get basic muscle memory so that they are better able to do them during the real workouts.

From a personal standpoint, I feel I get better gains doing Crossfit for two weeks than a strength routine for a month. It could just be my experience though.

Well, you're certainly right that the "correct" program depends on what your goals are. I also didn't think Crossfit was all about "muscle confusion," though I could be wrong about that. I would still say that it's important to build up some strength in correctly-performed movement patterns prior to starting something like Crossfit or this P90x thing. And that should be done in a controlled way with minimal amounts of fatigue, in order to develop good form. I think the basic strength programs are pretty good for that purpose. I think it's dangerous for a lightly-trained person with (probably) poor motor control and form to jump into a whirlwind, fatigue-inducing workout too soon, especially because form tends to break down fairly quickly when fatigue sets in, even in highly-trained people. One criticism of Crossfit is that when people use the O-lifts in its workouts their form is somewhere between atrocious and flat-out dangerous. Those are highly technical lifts which really shouldn't be done fatigued. So, to get to the point, I'm in the maximal strength/power camp. I did a program with complexes once when coming back from some down time, and while it definitely boosted my work capactiy, it killed my strength, which I wasn't happy about. The way I see it is, if you're doing any training at all, body composition is determined primarily by nutrition. Since food is what will make you bigger and/or leaner, time in the gym should be used for developing strength. And you're not going to get stronger if you're constantly changing movements or not using big compound movements.

Philosoph is dead on.

Also, the concept of 'muscle confusion' is stupid because it's simply exercise programming by trying everything. If you knew exactly what you needed to do to overcome a plateau, you wouldn't just do random shit and hope some works. The strongest, fastest, and overall best athletes are those that train intelligently, not those that train harder.

When perceived exertion is no longer a limiting factor in exercise and psychological stimulation yields little results, what's needed is proper programming. Trying random shit is the antithesis of programming.

Well I haven't done P90x. And when I say muscle confusion, I'm not referring to the various exercises during the 3-month P90x plan, I'm saying, if you're someone who primarily does weights (your basic bench and variations using dumbbells, squats, pull-ups, and weight-bearing variants), sometimes you want to "confuse" your muscles with something different for a 3-month period. Hence, something like P90x might help you break a training plateau rather than just doing the same exercises and varying high intensity for one period and high volume the next. After years, that too gets old. I bought kettlebells to vary up my training regimine. And as far as strength goes, although it's never encouraging to lift less than you usually do, you get to a certain age where it's like, who gives a shit how much I can lift. When I was younger, I would bench 275 for 8-10 reps, but you can't sustain that forever, and it took a toll on my shoulders for a while. Switching to something like P90x, assuming you're up for it, might be good to vary the routine - "muscle confusion" - as I understand the term is used.

The programs being discussed are broad based in their scope of exercises which is what some people are looking for. It uses a lot of basic moves, could be argued, in what I think I remember once reading about in microcycles to stress one part of the body more so than the other during a given cycle. I honestly can't remember where I read this, I think it was some old posts on BB.com. The idea is constantly varied so that adaptations to specific lifts are avoided to an extent.

I agree with Philosoph that people should learn the basic movements before using them in a program, but I don't think that they have to build strength in these movements before utilizing them in a workout. Form is stressed in all the readings, but not everyone does enough research into the program that they are going to follow. Drop the weight and use good form, it's suggested but not always followed.

why, you keep on mentioning plateaus which is not what those programs are meant to overcome. Plateaus are reached when trying to maximize any one functional area of fitness, whether it be speed, strength or endurance. What do you define as the overall best athlete because unless it's a decathalete then their overall fitness is probably lacking in some respect. These programs do not say that you will be the strongest or fastest, what they do try to achieve is that you will be strong AND fast without limiting your ability to be either. If you want to be great in one area then program for it. If you want to be good in many, then do a lot of different things.

Personally, I don't care about being the strongest or the fastest because I do too many different things with my life to be pigeon holed like that. To each their own, eh?

As an FYI, P90x makes it quite clear that the program is not for beginners.

bump - I'm in the final week of my third month and I feel amazing. Don't look half bad either if I do say so myself.

I'm definitely doing this for another cycle but will probably do the Lean program to change things up a bit.

Don't suppose you could post before/after pics?

I'm curious about P90X myself, but I don't think I'm currently quite in the shape required to do it.

Was contemplating what a good intermediary step would be... I think there's a different, easier P90-style program available from the same folks.


...

There are tons of pics on youtube, just search for p90x.

I have read that Power 90 is the easier version.
http://www.beachbody.com/product/power90.do

+1

I've started doing Crossfit, but I mixed in a P90x yoga workout. Yoga is just not for me. It's so slow, and he keeps telling me to relax when my mind is racing with all the things I need to do. Plus it was 90 minutes long. I'll probably check out some of the kenpo and ab killer routines.

tony horton has a 10 minute workout program. you can do 10, 20, or 30 minutes a day depending on your schedule. it has abs, cardio, lower body, total body, upper body, and yoga flex. each workout is 10 minutes long.

Does anyone do their p90 workouts at the gym? I know it's a home workout but I don't want to dish out extra cash when I can get a membership at the gym by my house for $40.