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Tailor "would not" implement functional buttons - Page 2

post #16 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLibourel View Post


What a warm, outgoing, "hail fellow, well met" outlook on life you must have!

 

Just an observation from experience. It hasn't affected my rosy outlook on life.  I try to like every person I meet and manage to find some reason most of the time.  However, dealing with the public at large, and especially in a professional setting is a different matter.  Don't you find incompetence, undeserved, unrealistic self-importance, self-entitlement coupled with an astonishing refusal to accept or take responsibility everywhere you go?  I do.  I expect incompetence with every organization and person I deal with every day.  I love the rare occasions when I find someone who knows what the hell they are doing and what they're talking about.  It's like a lovely flower blossoming in an expansive, dead and dying field.  I cherish those people.  Otherwise I have to expend more energy making up for the slack in those I'm dealing with.  I don't become frustrated or angry.  I become privately amused as it's exactly what I'm expecting.  That's western society at large and I've encountered this same phenomenon more or less in  every country in which I've travelled. I'm talking about objective facts and actions. 

 

Cordial discussions about subjective matters are completely different. 

So while I'm here, hail JLibourrel, well met!  wink.gif

post #17 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauberer View Post

Just an observation from experience. It hasn't affected my rosy outlook on life.  I try to like every person I meet and manage to find some reason most of the time.  However, dealing with the public at large, and especially in a professional setting is a different matter.  Don't you find incompetence, undeserved, unrealistic self-importance, self-entitlement coupled with an astonishing refusal to accept or take responsibility everywhere you go?  I do.  I expect incompetence with every organization and person I deal with every day.  I love the rare occasions when I find someone who knows what the hell they are doing and what they're talking about.  It's like a lovely flower blossoming in an expansive, dead and dying field.  I cherish those people.  Otherwise I have to expend more energy making up for the slack in those I'm dealing with.  I don't become frustrated or angry.  I become privately amused as it's exactly what I'm expecting.  That's western society at large and I've encountered this same phenomenon more or less in  every country in which I've travelled. I'm talking about objective facts and actions. 

Cordial discussions about subjective matters are completely different. 
So while I'm here, hail JLibourrel, well met!  wink.gif

Pot, meet kettle.
post #18 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesphw View Post

Is it just the fact that you need to have enough overlap of material near the cuff? Buttonholes themselves don't need any extra material...

I don't think there's a hard-and-fast rule, but the jacket I'm wearing has an overlap about twice the width of the button: you want enough material underneath to fully back the button, and then you don't want the buttonhole at the very edge either. I want to say that on my RTW the overlap is considerably narrower but YMMV.
post #19 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willin View Post


Pot, meet kettle.

biggrin.gif


Everyone has an overinflated sense of self-importance to a degreee.  Everyone. Are you casting stones, Willin?  Shame on you.  wink.gif

 

That small blurb which you emboldened is not only surrounded by an entire paragraph of context but, as you're aware,  related contextually to yet another post.  Do you deny that every organization, institution, bureaucracy, business and whathaveyou else is riddled with the incompetent?  Do you go through your day breezily like some character in a TV commercial who dances through his social environment with the greartest of ease where absolutely everything is working in perfect harmony?  Or do you find yourself hitting brick walls nearly every time you have to deal with some outside entity?  Do you ever have to call one of the utility companies, a government agency or press an issue with a company with which you've done business only to find you're dealing with someone who can't answer simple questions or make decisions despite the fact that they are at a level or pay grade in which they should?  Then as the cherry, they get haughty about it.  Isn't it correct to simply be amused and think of them as incompentent pricks?  Isn't correct to empathize with them, find a common ground and get something accomplished anyway?  If not then I'm both the pot and kettle. 

 

However, I think I'm calling a spade a spade. 

post #20 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauberer View Post

biggrin.gif


Everyone has an overinflated sense of self-importance to a degreee.  Everyone. Are you casting stones, Willin?  Shame on you.  wink.gif

That small blurb which you emboldened is not only surrounded by an entire paragraph of context but, as you're aware,  related contextually to yet another post.  Do you deny that every organization, institution, bureaucracy, business and whathaveyou else is riddled with the incompetent?  Do you go through your day breezily like some character in a TV commercial who dances through his social environment with the greartest of ease where absolutely everything is working in perfect harmony?  Or do you find yourself hitting brick walls nearly every time you have to deal with some outside entity?  Do you ever have to call one of the utility companies, a government agency or press an issue with a company with which you've done business only to find you're dealing with someone who can't answer simple questions or make decisions despite the fact that they are at a level or pay grade in which they should?  Then as the cherry, they get haughty about it.  Isn't it correct to simply be amused and think of them as incompentent pricks?  Isn't correct to empathize with them, find a common ground and get something accomplished anyway?  If not then I'm both the pot and kettle. 

However, I think I'm calling a spade a spade. 

2 things:

1) Your posts have absolutely nothing to do with the OP's issue.

2) I hate interacting with most people too so there's no need for your diatribe.
post #21 of 35
I have two new Calvin Klein all wool suits that fit very well that came with plastic buttons. I know I'm a Philistine, but I like the suits. Anyway I got some replacement bone buttons from Tender Buttons. I know a women that's a tailor and she said she could change the buttons without a problem. I then asked if she could make the cuff buttons functional and she said piece of cake-get it back to you in two days. She called about 3 days later and told me that she would have to to the buttons by hand because she didn't have the correct machine. No problem on my end if she could do it. Well it's been two weeks and should get them by the end of this week. Anytime I've ever had anything done by hand it's always taken longer than anticipated.Once waited six months for a Kydex knife sheath that should have taken 15 minutes so I'm not worried. I'm cautiously optimistic and will post pics when / if I get them back. smile.gif
post #22 of 35
A machine buttonhole machine is a very expensive item so a small tailor wouldn't normally have it. He may not have the time, skill or inclination to make you functioning buttonholes by hand. Even if they were done by hand they would not match the rest of the buttonholes on the suit very well and this would drive me bonkers.
post #23 of 35
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauberer View Post

Oh I agree with that. A person can also glue and sew a rubber chicken to the shoulder of their jacket and call themselves 'Pirate Boy of the Water Cooler Despot Regime.' People will notice this quickly. Certain people will notice the alteration to the OTR jacket as well. But do they care? Does the wearer care? Does anyone care what anyone cares? The answer is a not so surprising 'yes' whether we like it or not and despite the American love of putting up a facade of individualism and bravado. So for the person who does care in his private heart, he must decide who he is trying to affect and how he intends to do that. This is a vast grey area and must be custom tailored to his own individual set of circumstances.

As to noticing, and that may have been my main point in my post above, I saw James Bond Skyfall over the weekend with a friend of mine. In the opening scene and only a few moments into the live action, Bond enters an apartment, gun drawn and you can clearly see he has a sleeve button undone. I didn't cringe at the affectation, I cringed that the Bond franchise will sell the 'honor' of dressing Bond to the highest bidder. In this case it was Tom Ford. Then I wondered if Ford did this to piss off the people who would notice? Did he do it in a seriously lame atttempt to get the "unbuttoned thing" going? Or was it a wink and a private joke to those who notice and get the joke? I don't know. My friend didn't catch it at all, but I think he had more drinks than me prior to the show. Speaking of which, I would have a beer with a guy who glued a rubber chicken to his jacket and called himself 'Pirate Boy' but if he expected to be first in line for the next big promotion, we'd both be in for a surprise.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauberer View Post

biggrin.gif


Everyone has an overinflated sense of self-importance to a degreee. Everyone. Are you casting stones, Willin? Shame on you. wink.gif

That small blurb which you emboldened is not only surrounded by an entire paragraph of context but, as you're aware, related contextually to yet another post. Do you deny that every organization, institution, bureaucracy, business and whathaveyou else is riddled with the incompetent? Do you go through your day breezily like some character in a TV commercial who dances through his social environment with the greartest of ease where absolutely everything is working in perfect harmony? Or do you find yourself hitting brick walls nearly every time you have to deal with some outside entity? Do you ever have to call one of the utility companies, a government agency or press an issue with a company with which you've done business only to find you're dealing with someone who can't answer simple questions or make decisions despite the fact that they are at a level or pay grade in which they should? Then as the cherry, they get haughty about it. Isn't it correct to simply be amused and think of them as incompentent pricks? Isn't correct to empathize with them, find a common ground and get something accomplished anyway? If not then I'm both the pot and kettle.

However, I think I'm calling a spade a spade.

What a lot of rambling.
post #24 of 35
Thread Starter 

Wow sorry for kicking off a flame war, next time I will begin with something less provactive than button holes.fight[1].gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

Heard good words on Caruso Enzo @ Santa Monica.

 

Or maybe you should message Jesse Thorns @ PTO; he's local at SoCal.

Thanks I'll message jesse.

post #25 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauberer View Post

biggrin.gif
Everyone has an overinflated sense of self-importance to a degreee.  Everyone.

Not me. I strive to pass my days in humility and meekness, inspired by the example of Our Savior, Jesus Christ.
post #26 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suitcase Living View Post

Wow sorry for kicking off a flame war, next time I will begin with something less provactive than button holes.fight%5B1%5D.gif

Thanks I'll message jesse.

 

there's a button hole porn threak.  and other holes might end up at dumb threads.

post #27 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesphw View Post

Is it just the fact that you need to have enough overlap of material near the cuff? Buttonholes themselves don't need any extra material...

In general the sleeves must be made to allow for functional sleeve buttons, which the Benjamin suits do have. The basting threads on the sleeves are not decoration - they are basted because the sleeves are truly vented and can accommodate functional sleeve buttons. We find this to be extremely practical for several reasons:

1. The wearer can opt to have functional sleeve buttons (obviously)
2. It is often easier for the tailor, as most of the time sleeves need to be adjusted (shortened or lengthened), and buttons would have to come off anyway.
3. Fake sleeve buttonholes are a pain (and often accompany most OTR suits) as they actually create MORE work for the tailor if the sleeve length need to be adjusted. There is also the risk of damaging the fabric when attempting to undo the faux buttonholes.
post #28 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Reeves View Post

A machine buttonhole machine is a very expensive item so a small tailor wouldn't normally have it. He may not have the time, skill or inclination to make you functioning buttonholes by hand. Even if they were done by hand they would not match the rest of the buttonholes on the suit very well and this would drive me bonkers.

 

Quite. I can only think that the OP has been led to believe by Esquire and GQ that this is a simple operation that any tailor can do (and would want to do).

 

And I know that the #menswear press would have people believe that surgeon cuffs are an essential for differentiating oneself from less well-dressed people, but it's really not the case. I'm not even sure I see the point in them if one is getting suits or coats made from scratch. It's not as if I am ever going to undo them. So the last time I had a suit made, I didn't bother. And you know what? No-one notices, not even me.

post #29 of 35
The key point that seems to be getting lost is that you should never buy a RTW jacket that already has "functional" button holes thinking that the sleeve length can be adjusted. The only way to do it properly is to adjust the sleeve length from the shoulder which is hugely expensive and potentially risky.

Don't ask me how I know. It's still all too painful.
post #30 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLibourel View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauberer View Post

biggrin.gif
Everyone has an overinflated sense of self-importance to a degreee.  Everyone.

Not me. I strive to pass my days in humility and meekness, inspired by the example of Our Savior, Jesus Christ.[/quote

Please permit a(nother) comment off-topic of the thread: If JL's comment is sincere, all the best with that. That is how it should be.
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