Allen Edmonds vs. Alden--Which American Great Do You Prefer?!! OFFICIAL

MoneyWellSpent said:

To my knowledge all bespoke shoes are hand welted. As for ready-to-wear hand-welted shoes, there are a few companies that do it:

Saint-Crispin's

Meermin's Linea Maestro line (they do traditional Goodyear-welting for a lower price and charge a slight premium for the Hand-welted)

George Cleverley's Anthony Cleverley line

Aubercy

These are the ones that immediately come to mind. Others may be able to add to the list. Something to be aware of... Because Goodyear-welting has become the commonly understood "finest" shoe construction, some of these companies call their Hand-welted shoes "Handsewn Goodyear", or "Handmade Goodyear." This has no doubt confused many people seeking to learn the difference, but it is important to remember that a shoe can't be both Hand-welted and Goodyear-welted. They are mutually exclusive. Goodyear-welting is the industrial revolution's adaptation of a traditional Hand-welted shoe, nothing more. Since Goodyear-welting has become known as the "finest", many of the manufacturers that do Hand-welting will still throw in the Goodyear name to grab the attention of those that are unaware of this history.

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How could I forget Vass? Vass is Hand-welted.



MoneyWellSpent said:

You have to understand DWF's context.  He specializes in cowboy boots, and his products get worn very hard.  He isn't making his products simply for show.  They are getting used on ranches, farm work, submerged in mud, getting quite wet, used for work boots, and at the end of a long hard day they are being left to dry for a few hours before starting all over again the next morning.

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You make an excellent point here MWS. I never get too involved in the hand-welted, GYW, pegged, etc. conversation as I have not seen much of a significant drop from my handwelted shoes (e.g., Vass) to my GYW ones (Alden, EG, AS, etc.). I recognize the superior construction of hand-welted shoes though but prefer other brands (coincidentally GYW) due to last fit and convenience. I wear my shoes that have been resoled and have had no change in fit. I walk a distance (anywhere from 3 to 5 miles a day) and haven't encountered much problems. Maybe since I'm a smaller guy I put less stress on them.

Haven't had any of my Aldens resoled since they are all double-leather and I only typically wear them on the weekends, but I've seen a pair that have been resoled and they looked good. I do have to say that AE does excellent work on the uppers and a decent job with the soles. Although my preference is Alden, I do have to give AE this one for the treatment of their uppers, quick turn-a-around, and customer service.

Hello everyone,

I'm supersede, and I joined this blog to ask these questions.

Please give me your expertise and help me to find the shoes (and briefcase) that I desire. Thanks.

I wear a size 10 B in the Allen Edmonds "Grayson" (or newer model "Adams") tassel loafer, and they are the most comfortable shoes I own. I wear a size 10.5 B in the Alden tassel loafer (whose name, if there is one, I don't know), and they are the most beautiful shoes I own. I wear a size 10 B in the Johnston & Murphy "Westchester" tassel loafer, and they are fine shoes too, but I prefer the previous two.

I would like to find a barely-worn pair of tassel loafers or "full strap" penny loafers (by Alden or Allen Edmonds, which also calls its full strap model the "Westchester"). I am also interested in the Allen Edmonds "Patriot" penny loafer, preferably with a leather and rubber combination sole and heel. I would like to find a black or a wine/burgundy pair.

In addition, please tell me what size to order in the Gokey Sauvage oxford, casual moccasin-style shoe (sold new by Orvis), which I have been told requires one half size larger than usual and one size wider. If this advice is correct, then I figure I should get a 10.5 C in that casual shoe. I would have to pay $50 more for a new pair ($275), because the "regular" pair ($225) sizes begin with a "D" width.

Finally, I am interested in finding a classic-styled briefcase, with the single clasp flap, single handle, which reflects quality craftsmanship. Rawlings used to offer a "legal-styled" brief bag, new, for around $500, but no longer offers that model.

Best wishes,

supersede

supersede said:

Hello everyone,

I'm supersede, and I joined this blog to ask these questions.

Please give me your expertise and help me to find the shoes (and briefcase) that I desire. Thanks.

I wear a size 10 B in the Allen Edmonds "Grayson" (or newer model "Adams") tassel loafer, and they are the most comfortable shoes I own. I wear a size 10.5 B in the Alden tassel loafer (whose name, if there is one, I don't know), and they are the most beautiful shoes I own. I wear a size 10 B in the Johnston & Murphy "Westchester" tassel loafer, and they are fine shoes too, but I prefer the previous two.

I would like to find a barely-worn pair of tassel loafers or "full strap" penny loafers (by Alden or Allen Edmonds, which also calls its full strap model the "Westchester"). I am also interested in the Allen Edmonds "Patriot" penny loafer, preferably with a leather and rubber combination sole and heel. I would like to find a black or a wine/burgundy pair.

In addition, please tell me what size to order in the Gokey Sauvage oxford, casual moccasin-style shoe (sold new by Orvis), which I have been told requires one half size larger than usual and one size wider. If this advice is correct, then I figure I should get a 10.5 C in that casual shoe. I would have to pay $50 more for a new pair ($275), because the "regular" pair ($225) sizes begin with a "D" width.

Finally, I am interested in finding a classic-styled briefcase, with the single clasp flap, single handle, which reflects quality craftsmanship. Rawlings used to offer a "legal-styled" brief bag, new, for around $500, but no longer offers that model.

Best wishes,

supersede

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The best fit for me in the Gokey is one size wider but the same length as I normally wear, i.e., from 10 1/2 D to 10 1/2 E.

Very interesting thread. I would have thought Alden would have ran away with it but there are good arguments on both sides.

I have something from each company and would agree that its really just a judgment call - both make great products.


Will also be interesting to see if AE keeps expanding and if Alden will ever go that route.

I have heard a lot about these two types of shoes but to my eye (in Australia) they appear to be much the same, with AE having the rounder toe and also additional styling along the side, irrespective they have a nice colour. I love the pictures they are just what I needed to know what they look like when sitting next to each other so that i can make a choice of shoe.

Thank you for the thread.

I'm sure AE will tell you the same, but it bears repeating: Do not buy shoes second hand. Ever. No matter how much money you think you will save. The cork beds in well-made shoes conform to the owner's feet, and while the speed with which the cork conforms isn't known, it makes sense to think that the cork will not "readjust" to a second foot. Further, the sweat and body oils of another person don't magically leave the leather lining of the shoes before you put your own foot in them. Save your money a little longer and buy new.

thetasmanian said:

I have heard a lot about these two types of shoes but to my eye (in Australia) they appear to be much the same, with AE having the rounder toe and also additional styling along the side, irrespective they have a nice colour. I love the pictures they are just what I needed to know what they look like when sitting next to each other so that i can make a choice of shoe.

Thank you for the thread.

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I think most people including AE enthusiasts would readily concede that Alden's shell cordovan finishing/color is superior to AE. For example, Alden's color 8 is a much richer, deeper shade of burgundy than AE's burgundy shell. That's indisputable. While AE has recently tried to improve their shell offerings with walnut, cappuccino, truffle shell colors (and I would agree that they have), they still lag behind in a big way with the variety and avaiability of shell models.

With regard to the "rounder toe," not sure anyone would agree with you here when comparing similar lasts. Most AE enthusiasts assert that AE's lasts are more attractive than Alden lasts because AE tends to be sleeker and more dressy than Alden's typically bulkier, rounder, clunkier looking lasts.

In any case, I have both and enjoy both but prefer Alden. Here are some from my collection...

Ravello PTB (Alden)

Alden color 8... (PTB)

Perf Cap Toe boot

Shortwing Blucher

Medallion cap Toe Blucher

Alden's original Tassel Moc in color 8...


Leisure Handsown Penny Loafer...

Same loafer with AE Walnut shell Wingtip boots...



Alden's ravello wingtip (similar to AE's walnut)


Cheers mate!

Nope. While I do prefer Alden Color 8 over AE Burgundy shell, I will take AE brown over Alden Cigar:

^^^ Awesome shoe my friend and I grant you that they look spectacular, but I think good people can agree to disagree. With AE brown shell as their web gem this month I was ready to pull the trigger on the Jefferson or possibly the strand but just haven't found any pics "in the wild" that do it for me. I'm sure you will agree that AE's website doesn't do much to help their cause. Not to mention, my old and ailing joints need the comfort and support that Alden's superior construction and double leather soles provide that I have never gotten from AE.

Nevertheless, you have a wonderful shoe.

ps I need a better camera.



RogerP said:

Nope.  While I do prefer Alden Color 8 over AE Burgundy shell, I will take AE brown over Alden Cigar:

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These would be beautiful if they had some shape to them. I'm not sure why AE insists on making their shoes so blocky and lifeless.

I have yet to put my hands on a pair of Alden shoes here in Florida. I would like to see what the hubbub is all about, I have been intrigued by their models at times...

suited said:

These would be beautiful if they had some shape to them. I'm not sure why AE insists on making their shoes so blocky and lifeless.

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That's your opinion and you're welcome to it. I'm not sure why some people confuse their personal view of what is beautiful with some universal law of general application. I see beauty in a wide variety of styles - from the slender and delicate to the stout and sturdy. If your ability to appreciate aesthetic diversity is limited, that's your problem.

Repp - absolutely we can hold different views. But I wasn't comparing web pics - I have Alden Color 8 and love it. And I have seen Alden cigar in hand and prefer the AE that I purchased. Some of the lighter shades are a push between the two. So I don't accept that all Aden shell is better finished than all AE shell.
These are the Alden:

PS - your collection is VERY impressive!

@Suited - It's a blucher. It 's supposed to be somewhat casual with some versatility. Not sure what you mean by lifeless. AE's lasts generally have decent shape and sleekness to them.

@RogerP - Thank you for complimenting my collection. I didn't mean to say every Alden shell shoe is finished better than every AE shell shoe. There are some Alden shell colors that didn't come out as well as I would have liked. But if you compare similar shell models with the same color, I would generally take the Alden version over the AE version 9 out of 10 times. For example...

Alden Medallion Cap Toe v AE Sanford
Alden LWB v. McNeil
Alden NST v. AE Bradley
Alden PTB v. Leeds (this one's pretty close)
LHS v. Patriot
Tassel Moc v. Grayson
Perf cap toe v. Fifth avenue
Straight tip v. Park Avenue
Alden Short Wing Blucher v. AE Player's
Alden's BB short wing bal/oxford v. AE Cambridge
Almost any Alden boot v. the comparable AE boot

The only AE version I would select over Alden would be the Dundee (chukka) bc of AE's third eyelet. However, I would go with Alden's 6 eyelet chukka if given the choice.

I have had several of these AE versions in calf, but opted to go with Alden shell when it came time to choosing the shell version. Not sure there is an Alden counterpart to your brown shell cap toe blucher. The closest one to it that I know of would be the medallion cap toe blucher; I would still go with mine.

As they say though, to each his own.

ps Nice Alt Wien!

suited said:

These would be beautiful if they had some shape to them. I'm not sure why AE insists on making their shoes so blocky and lifeless.

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Surely you're not saying Alden's have more shape than AEs?