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Official: STAR WARS THREAD. These are the droids you're looking for. **WARNING MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS!** - Page 169

post #2521 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

Fair point, but to the question you asked: if that criticism is brought up only with respect to a a female lead character/hero, while the same critics seemed to have no problem with the old farts kicking ass, isn't it fair to draw inferences why the lack of "realism" bothers them so much in one case but not in the others?

Some of us only have so much energy to complain about television shows and movies.
post #2522 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

[
Fair point, but to the question you asked: if that criticism is brought up only with respect to a a female lead character/hero, while the same critics seemed to have no problem with the old farts kicking ass, isn't it fair to draw inferences why the lack of "realism" bothers them so much in one case but not in the others?

imo this criticsm is wrong, because star wars movies show something different
idk what is underlying motive for someone else criticsms, but probably they haven't pick this movie apart like we have in this thread
post #2523 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

Some of us only have so much energy to complain about television shows and movies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wojt View Post


idk what is underlying motive for someone else criticsms, but probably they haven't pick this movie apart like we have in this thread

Two of the most apt and inarguable observations in this threak.
post #2524 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

Fair point, but to the question you asked: if that criticism is brought up only with respect to a a female lead character/hero, while the same critics seemed to have no problem with the old farts kicking ass, isn't it fair to draw inferences why the lack of "realism" bothers them so much in one case but not in the others?

In the case of Star Wars, power seems linked to connection to the force rather than age or necessarily physical power (see: Yoda). It is clear that she has a great connection to the force, but her ability to harness it without training is what seems "unrealistic", which is basically what Ataturk said earlier. Luke couldn't lift the X Wing, even after blowing up the Death Star. Rey was able to defeat Kylo's interrogation, and also best him in battle after just touching a lightsaber.

Maybe she had been trained (by Luke) and her mind was wiped? This fan theory would make it all somewhat more plausible.
post #2525 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by origenesprit View Post

In the case of Star Wars, power seems linked to connection to the force rather than age or necessarily physical power (see: Yoda). It is clear that she has a great connection to the force, but her ability to harness it without training is what seems "unrealistic", which is basically what Ataturk said earlier. Luke couldn't lift the X Wing, even after blowing up the Death Star. Rey was able to defeat Kylo's interrogation, and also best him in battle after just touching a lightsaber.

Maybe she had been trained (by Luke) and her mind was wiped? This fan theory would make it all somewhat more plausible.

Seems reasonable. I was specifically responding there to wojt's observation that criticism rooted in Rey's physical stature was misguided for some of the reasons you allude to, as evidenced by overly spry old geezers. I'd agree it doesn't speak to the same way to your "no training" point, but then it wasn't meant to.
post #2526 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by origenesprit View Post


Ripley didn't beat the Alien in a one on one duel using her overwhelming skill and power.

I didn't know that the Alien universe was the same as star wars and that they were comparable, thanks!

post #2527 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr Mouse View Post

So a bunch of the usual suspects didn't jump on criticizing Rogue One because it also features a female lead? I'm just imaging that?

I remmember a few pages of this.

post #2528 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

I didn't know that the Alien universe was the same as star wars and that they were comparable, thanks!

So... your point is that these posters are all Star Wars sexists?
post #2529 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

I didn't know that the Alien universe was the same as the star wars one, thanks!

Probably will be, as film-maker consolidation and the relentless pursuit of cross-marketing opportunities leads to all major sci-fi and superhero movie franchises being folded into one ginormous product/brand/universe, like when Urkel shows up on Full House. They'll hire Peter Jackson to film 19 installments simultaneously so their cupboards will be full for years to come.
post #2530 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by origenesprit View Post


So... your point is that these posters are all Star Wars sexists?

My point is that your rebuttal makes no sense. I posed a question asking if there hadn't been any criticism because the main character was a woman. Many of the arguments in the history of this thread have had to do with the 'realism' and cohesion in the star wars universe, discontinuity, etc.[criticisms of the movie based on canon] You brought up Alien, which is totally irrelevant (unless I missed the part where they had the force and lightsabers and jedi)

post #2531 of 2848




post #2532 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

My point is that your rebuttal makes no sense. I posed a question asking if there hadn't been any criticism because the main character was a woman. Many of the arguments in the history of this thread have had to do with the 'realism' and cohesion in the star wars universe, discontinuity, etc. You brought up Alien, which is totally irrelevant (unless I missed the part where they had the force and lightsabers and jedi)

Wojt brought up Alien, not me. His point, which is valid despite your inability to understand it, is that we believe in Ripley's ability to defeat the Alien because of the story up to that point, and we don't necessarily believe that Rey could defeat Kylo because of the story up to that point, and neither belief has to do with Ripley or Rey's gender. It doesn't matter that the universes aren't the same - an accusation of sexism applies to treatment of all women, not just Star Wars women living by Star Wars rules in the Star Wars universe.
post #2533 of 2848
Maybe Disney has a progressive agenda and a film like "Frozen" is really an allegory about coming out of the closet.

Or maybe in the case of Star Wars, it's simply smart marketing. Disney is just targeting its core audience, which has always been girls who they now hope will grow up and become lifetime fans of the franchise like boys of the 70s did.
post #2534 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by origenesprit View Post

Wojt brought up Alien, not me. His point, which is valid despite your inability to understand it, is that we believe in Ripley's ability to defeat the Alien because of the story up to that point, and we don't necessarily believe that Rey could defeat Kylo because of the story up to that point, and neither belief has to do with Ripley or Rey's gender. It doesn't matter that the universes aren't the same - an accusation of sexism applies to treatment of all women, not just Star Wars women living by Star Wars rules in the Star Wars universe.

1. It's probably relevant, though, that there was no interwebz discussion thread when Alien first came out.
2. The premise that sexism, or sexist assumptions, necessarily dictate a violent opposition to all portrayals of strong women is a flimsy straw broad. We all have black friends.
post #2535 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by origenesprit View Post


Wojt brought up Alien, not me. His point, which is valid despite your inability to understand it, is that we believe in Ripley's ability to defeat the Alien because of the story up to that point, and we don't necessarily believe that Rey could defeat Kylo because of the story up to that point, and neither belief has to do with Ripley or Rey's gender. It doesn't matter that the universes aren't the same - an accusation of sexism applies to treatment of all women, not just Star Wars women living by Star Wars rules in the Star Wars universe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by origenesprit View Post


Ripley didn't beat the Alien in a one on one duel using her overwhelming skill and power.

Your argument also conveniently left out that Kylo had already been shot in the stomach/side, and had already been in a bruising fight and sustained additional injuries vs Finn.

 

So it wasn't Rey > Kylo. It was Kylo, after being shot by a rather powerful weapon, after going through another fight lost to Rey. Which is quite different from what you facetiously stated.

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