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Official: STAR WARS THREAD. These are the droids you're looking for. **WARNING MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS!** - Page 126

post #1876 of 2848

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

Since you're the expert on insecurities, what do you think about folks who feel the need to interject their experience at "fight gyms" into online discussions? You sure did a good job on that straw man about no woman anywhere ever being able to beat up any man, ever, though. So I guess I'll take that back.

Maybe you should watch the fight from the finale again, though. Rey doesn't overcome by "using the force" or whatever. She just manhandles the guy, who probably nearly doubles her in weight. In the coup de grace, they lock up and she overpowers him and just pushes him down -- like a sumo wrestler would. It looks like something from a cartoon or a cheap action movie. If you're okay with that and the rest of the movie's mediocrity, great. You got the movie you deserve. Plot, suspense, originality? Nah. Forced diversity, false empowerment -- and explosions! A mediocre superhero movie aping Star Wars.

Anyway, set aside the physical absurdity of it, and the bad plotting -- the ending still sucks if for no other reason than it being a terrible setup for the next movie. Good luck convincing anyone to be afraid of Darth Millennial after he's literally been beat up by a little girl.

I felt that it was necessary to establish my credentials as someone who has actually trained against abled body women.

 

Assuming that you are able to accept the other implausibilities in the Star Wars Universe, it's telling that the parts of the movie that really seem to bother you are 1) what you term "forced diversity", and 2) False empowerment (of a woman).  You are not bothered by these because they are inconsistent with the Star Wars universe, but because they reflect on points of view of our universe with which you are clearly uncomfortable.  They are what you see in the Rorschach inkblot. 

 

Let's examine both of these in the context of the Star Wars universe in particular, and the science fiction/science fantasy/space opera genres in general.  In the Star Wars Universe, who knows what "diversity" means.  The majority of "humans" could be black, or "latino", or "Asian", whatever that might mean.  So, "forced diversity" is simply something that you perceive to be jarring because of your earthly political views, and not something that is jarring because it doesn't make sense in the Star Wars Universe.  The woman physically besting a man?  In science fiction and fantasy ation sequences, NOTHING, not a thing, except for that fact that limbs move, is realistic.  A woman being able to push a man down is considerably more realistic than any martial arts choreography, including stuff that is supposed to be "realistic" and "gritty".  So, is a woman physically overpowering a seriously wounded man (and this is stressed over and over again) implausible?  Perhaps.  But it is far from the most implausible action sequence in the movie.  I mean, Storm Troopers are supposed to be the best soldiers, but in every movie, they are cannon fodder for a bunch of not particularly well trained civilians.  They also seem to lack the ability to move and shoot, or fight with any sort of tactical competency.  But no, it's Rey overpowering Ren Kylo the one that really irks you.  

 

I don't presume to think that I'm going to change your mind about anything, but it's my sincere hope that you think about it a bit, at least.

post #1877 of 2848
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post


Luke was warned that evil was easy and seductive and that the only way for him to beat it was patience, preparation, and sacrifice. Luke isn't willing to do it, so he loses. Rey does none of those things and yet she somehow prevails.

.

Did it ever occur to you that this may be setting up her arc in future films? This is the first film in a planned trilogy and her brief tap into the dark side happened at the very end of it. There could well be repercussions for this action in the future. I know more than one person is speculating they may have her turn to the darkside at one point only to need to be saved by her friends. It's all speculation of course, but pretending that this scene couldn't be used for future narrative in a trilogy of films is being naive.
post #1878 of 2848
You're putting some optimistic, apologist gloss on the movie that's not in it. It's never suggested, hinted, implied, whatever, that Rey is doing anything improper by beating up Ren. If anything it's suggested that she's doing exactly what she's supposed to do -- she meditates (or whatever) and (positive) music from the original score plays. There's never any hint that what she's doing is dark or dangerous.

And I don't doubt in the slightest that they'll continue aping the original Star Wars movies. It seems obvious to me that they intended to have Kylo reveal some familial connection, considering how much they lingered on her mysterious missing family and how Ren had a perfect opportunity to reveal it during the (obligatory) "join me" offer, but nope, they put it off for the next movie. Who cares whether it makes any sense?
post #1879 of 2848
Thread Starter 
I've seen the movie three times. She's clearly enraged which suggests tapping into the dark side. You can argue against this all you want, but it's spelled out in the movie's script and in the novelization.
post #1880 of 2848
Does any physical manifestation of physical effort or emotion by a force user automatically mean they're "tapping into the dark side"? Are they just supposed to be the picture of serenity while physically exerting themselves during battle?
post #1881 of 2848
It's more plausible than a female ghostbuster
post #1882 of 2848
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Argentino View Post

Does any physical manifestation of physical effort or emotion by a force user automatically mean they're "tapping into the dark side"? Are they just supposed to be the picture of serenity while physically exerting themselves during battle?

I'd say no, but her taping into the dark side briefly was the intention of the film and script.
post #1883 of 2848
I get your points, @LA Guy, but can you explain why Rey is the only character with a British accent? (It would have been easy for Ridley to "play American" as many British actors do.) Was Jakku formerly a British colony?
post #1884 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambulance Chaser View Post

I get your points, @LA Guy, but can you explain why Rey is the only character with a British accent? (It would have been easy for Ridley to "play American" as many British actors do.) Was Jakku formerly a British colony?

Obi-Wan?

Qui-Gon?

Sidious/Palpatine?

Ki-Adi-Mundi?

A large number of Imperial Officers?

First Order Officers?

post #1885 of 2848
The only character with a British accent in TFA. Clearly, I haven't watched a Star Wars movie since 1999. shog[1].gif
post #1886 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambulance Chaser View Post

The only character with a British accent in TFA. Clearly, I haven't watched a Star Wars movie since 1999. shog[1].gif

Captain Phasma

C-3PO

First Order Officer played by Thomas Brodie-Sangster (Funny thing, he asked Qui-Gon for love advice in Love Actually).

First Order General was not British but Irish, still had an accent though.

Snoke

 

Chewbacca had a slight British accent when he roared, if you listened very carefully.

post #1887 of 2848
Thread Starter 
British accents in SW has always been and will always be a thing.
post #1888 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

`
I felt that it was necessary to establish my credentials as someone who has actually trained against abled body women.

I'm certainly not claiming to have beaten up more girls than you have.
Quote:
it's telling that the parts of the movie that really seem to bother you

This is a gross misrepresentation of the actual discussion. I said I thought the little girl('s mother) who wrote that note misunderstood what a "strong" female character is supposed to be. You asked me elaborate on it. Then you interjected with the diversity schlock, which I had said was distracting -- and it is. It was a very deliberate decision to change the composition of the casts to push present-day political issues, that has nothing to do with the story. It reminds me of the "Only Sith speak in absolutes" horseshit from the prequels. It's not like I'm the only person who's brought it up, as the "diversity" of the cast has been fawned over extensively by professional reviewers.

If anything, you're the one pushing both of these issues. So grab a mirror and tell me what you see, Doc.
post #1889 of 2848
I cringed when Rey was schooling Han on the mechanics of the Millenium Falcon. Pretty heavy handed to have a "you go girl!" moment overlap with tearing down a male character everyone grew up admiring.

I don't think a boy today can watch this new movie and be inspired by a male character in the same way he would by watching the original trilogy.
post #1890 of 2848
It's the consistency that really irks me.

For instance, when Rey's first opens her mouth she's speaking Jakkunian. But it's clear to anyone with ears that she had a heavy Tatooinian accent like she grew up in the goddamn Mos Eisley suburbs. Fail JJ.
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