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Official: STAR WARS THREAD. These are the droids you're looking for. **WARNING MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS!** - Page 108

post #1606 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr Mouse View Post

Thinking more about this thing with Poe it occurred to me that is it going to bother anyone when Captain Phasma appears in Ep 8? After all she was:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Last seen about to get put into a trash compactor. Something that ANH established as a death trap. How did she get free before she was crushed or the planet exploded? I promise you this won't be shown and at best will be addressed in a quick line of dialogue. Should the viewer look on this as lazy 9th grade level story telling that takes them out of the narrative or just accept that it happened and enjoy the film?

I really don't see any difference between this and what happened to Poe.
Actually, that would be pretty lame without a decent and convincing explanation. (That said, it's been establishrd in the past that the situation you're describing may not be as termial as first appears.). The more surprising or apparently implausible the offscreen event, the more likely it's going to stick out and be a distractiiom. With any piece of fiction, choices have to be made about what is shown and what is not, what is explained and how, or not. With good storytelling it seems relatively seamless. With bad or lazy writing it's distracting and disruptive.
post #1607 of 2848
And who actually keeps access doors in trash compactors locked? They've probably figured that out in the last 20 years.

Kind of like older walk in coolers can be death traps, but now OSHA is gonna be on your ass if you build one without an interior escape button.
post #1608 of 2848
Am I the only one was utterly underwhelmed by Cap Phasma?? I bet if you asked any random movie-goer if they remembered her,,, they would draw a huge blank. She was pretty forgettable TBH
post #1609 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorcan7 View Post

Yeah, I hear you.

But that is also  what I meant when I said his character is set from the beginning - the breaking point for Finn is in the very first scene, we get to see maybe a few seconds of him behaving as a 'normal' stormtrooper before he realizes this isn't for him and that he'll have to ultimately escape/betray the First Order.

Compare that to Luke in ANH (who fills the everyman Joe Sixpack role, much as Finn does in TFA).  At first to Obi Wan, Luke's like "the Empire isn't my problem" and "I can't go off and save some princess, I've got work to do!" and the breaking point doesn't come until his aunt and uncle are killed and he realizes there's nothing left for him on Tatooine and he has to act.  It takes time, and we see his character change/develop.  Or with Rey, we get see her everyday life on Jakku before BB-8 shows up and the plot happens.  There's some lead in.  I'm not saying we needed an extended sequence of Finn carrying out his sanitation duties to fill in backstory, but the pacing and development of his character just felt slightly off to me.


The whole pacing of the film was just a bit too fast for my tastes. I'd rather they cut a battle scene to show a little more of Finn's development and Poe's escape from Jakku. SW (I refuse to call in ANH it wasn't called that when I saw it wink.gif ) was better paced, but that's true of most sci-fi/action films of the two periods. I still thoroughly enjoyed it though...
post #1610 of 2848
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

Actually, that would be pretty lame without a decent and convincing explanation. (That said, it's been establishrd in the past that the situation you're describing may not be as termial as first appears.). The more surprising or apparently implausible the offscreen event, the more likely it's going to stick out and be a distractiiom. With any piece of fiction, choices have to be made about what is shown and what is not, what is explained and how, or not. With good storytelling it seems relatively seamless. With bad or lazy writing it's distracting and disruptive.

We didn't see Hux or any of the other First Order escape either. Are we to assume they all died? What about Kylo Ren? I don't remember a scene in the film showing him being rescued. How much time did a rescue squad have to locate him, place him on board and reach a level of altitude to not be destroyed by the blast of the planet exploding anyways? Sometimes the makers of films just put faith in the audience that they can accept major plot points like this happen.

Regarding Poe, what's so implausible that he was thrown from the Tie Fighter and survived? We saw that happen with Finn, so why not Poe? I honestly don't understand why some of you are getting hung up on this and seem to want plot spoon fed to you visually without being able to go with the fact that it happened off screen.
post #1611 of 2848
Didn't Snape tell Hux to go find kylo ren and get him off the planet?

He probably called Mrs silver on her helmet radio to ask for help, she was probably like "hey, come let me out of the garbage chute" and then they lived happily ever after.
post #1612 of 2848
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by otc View Post

Didn't Snape tell Hux to go find kylo ren and get him off the planet?

He probably called Mrs silver on her helmet radio to ask for help, she was probably like "hey, come let me out of the garbage chute" and then they lived happily ever after.

Yes. But we didn't see it happen, that's the point. Poe tells Finn how he survived how is this any different? Both are major plot developments that happen off screen and are only addressed through dialogue.

Speaking of things that happen off screen. How did Vader survive ANH? Last we saw he was spinning out of control in a damaged modified Tie-Fighter. How long was he out there? How much food, water and air did he have? How did he escape the blast of the Deathstar? Isn't it established that Tie-Fighters don't have warp drives? Who rescued him?

It's almost like people just accepted that he survived and moved on.
post #1613 of 2848
To be fair, SW came out in the 70s. There wasn't any internet back then.
post #1614 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo_Version 7 View Post

To be fair, SW came out in the 70s. There wasn't any internet back then.

I personally remember having discussions like these at the lunch table of Summit Jr. High in the late 70s. This was the precursor to the internet fanwars that we see today.
post #1615 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr Mouse View Post

I heard it stated recently that movies are not plot delivery services. Their job is to deliver an enjoyable experience. Sometimes you just need to accept things happen off screen that will never be fully explained in the narrative.

 

Jr - love and hugs, but that's really stupid.

 

lefty

post #1616 of 2848
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lefty View Post

Jr - love and hugs, but that's really stupid.

lefty

Love and hugs back, but how so? Are you presenting the idea that everything in a film must be shown and not assumed and/or stated verbally? I can't imagine that's what you are saying so I think you should re-read what you quoted in context to what I've been trying to get across.
post #1617 of 2848
I kind of like it when a character tosses out a line of dialog that recasts what I think of/know about a character (whether the same character or a different one). I'm not sure the whole "Poe Dameron not dying" thing is the best example, but when done well it's a good storytelling device.
post #1618 of 2848
Poe is annoying. The last thing we need is another 10 minutes of him jackassing his way off jakku.
post #1619 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr Mouse View Post


Yes. But we didn't see it happen, that's the point. Poe tells Finn how he survived how is this any different? Both are major plot developments that happen off screen and are only addressed through dialogue.

Speaking of things that happen off screen. How did Vader survive ANH? Last we saw he was spinning out of control in a damaged modified Tie-Fighter. How long was he out there? How much food, water and air did he have? How did he escape the blast of the Deathstar? Isn't it established that Tie-Fighters don't have warp drives? Who rescued him?

It's almost like people just accepted that he survived and moved on.

 

They explained this away in the Expanded Universe / additional media that one of the special features of Darth's Modified Tie-fighter is that it has a hyperdrive unlike the regular Tie's.

 

I had one of those vehicle cross-section books for the original trilogy as a kid where they delved into all that stuff :)

 

Personally I always assumed Poe had survived somehow and would appear again later in the film, and found this easier to swallow than some of the other plotting / pacing issues.

post #1620 of 2848
Huge spoiler realization today:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Han only believed Ben was his son. The facial resemblance actually suggests a Jabba/Leia rapechild, which she then proceeded to convince Han was his.
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