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Official: STAR WARS THREAD. These are the droids you're looking for. **WARNING MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS!** - Page 104

post #1546 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr Mouse View Post

If you really want to get technical about the term Mary Sue, it originates from Star Trek fanfic. It would feature the author inserting an idolized version of themselves into a story. Often as ensign who would team up with or aide the heroes (Kirk and crew) to save the day. Quickly rising the ranks, get the guy/girl, etc, etc. Then leave. The Mary Sue was never a permenant member of the fictional universes they were inserted in. They were not the heroes.

That's why Luke isn't a Mary/Gary Sue. He's the hero of Star Wars.

That's also why Rey isn't a Mary Sue either. She's the hero of TFA and the new trilogy.
 

 

Didn't it originate from a Star Trek fanfic character actually named Mary Sue?

 

In any case, it's silly to argue about the believablity of magical characters outside the context of their magical worlds.  I think that the only legit beef that people can have with regard to the Rey character is the flying of the MF.  There is nothing in the background of the character that would suggest that she would be able to fly the Falcon. I mean, sure, piloting is a talent that apparently runs in the Skywalker line, but unlike Anakin, who had been flying pods already, and Luke, who was pretty nervous flying the X-Wing on the Death Star run, Rey seems completely at home and not at all nervous doing complicated maneuvers in an old hunk of junk, which seems a bit implausible.  Even more implausible is that she had no hesitation about flying it out of the atmosphere, when she apparently had not been off Jakku since she was four or whatever.

post #1547 of 2848
Guaranteed we will get some kind of "oh shit, we didn't think of that" explanation next movie.
post #1548 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by lefty View Post
 

Donlt forget Ren was also punching himself in the gut wound for y'know, extra motivation. "C'mon, man, you're better that this! Remember your lessons!"

 

Oy veh.

 

The thing about Mary Sues is that they're better at eveything that everyone else.

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
If they had just let Rey have the sword scene as a way to show the force is "strong with this one" then I think people would be loving it. It was her flying the MF out of the gate better than or as good as Solo and then showing him how to tweak it and her escaping the shackles so easily that is pissing people off.

 

lefty

I'm trying to figure out which is a better moniker for Ren Kylo, who is perhaps the least badass sith wannabee since "I may be an accountant by day, but I am a Sith by Night" Count Dooku.

 

1) Darth Millennial

2) Darth Emo

post #1549 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

I'm trying to figure out which is a better moniker for Ren Kylo, who is perhaps the least badass sith wannabee since "I may be an accountant by day, but I am a Sith by Night" Count Dooku.

1) Darth Millennial
2) Darth Emo

https://twitter.com/kylor3n

December 25, 2015
post #1550 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post
 

Finn vs. Ren.  It would be like me facing a world class fencer.  I have some rudimentary understanding of fencing principles, and I'm reasonably confident that in overall hand-to-hand combat training and practice, I have a lot more years in it then any Olympic fencer, but I mean, c'mon, I'd be skewered nearly immediately.  Physical strength doesn't matter much when it comes to magical laser weapons.  Luke Skywalker, in Empire Strikes back, is only halfway finished his training, and he could kick any stormtroopers ass.  Ren is much more advanced than was Luke, and there is no indication that Finn was a standout in any way. In fact, the expedition to Jakku was his first engagement.

What if you were a Samurai?

post #1551 of 2848
Thread Starter 
Movie's topped 814 million in world wide gross and people are saying it could cross the billion mark by Monday:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/star-wars-force-awakens-tops-851139

Critically acclaimed and it seems to be connecting with the vast majority of fans (sorry Ataturk!). Star Wars is back and it feels really damn good. icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

Im going for my 2nd viewing this weekend. 2d all the way. Will share further thoughts when done.
post #1552 of 2848
Just don't INTO DARKNESS the sequel....
post #1553 of 2848
Thread Starter 
JJ isn't directing it. It's not his film.
post #1554 of 2848

It struck me when I re-watched the original Star Wars recently that Luke seemed a bit good at everything with no or minimal training, and Anakin pilots a starfighter pretty expertly in The Phantom Menace despite having no flight training other than a quick run-through of a ship's controls on he run to Naboo. Does that mean they're Marty Sue characters?

 

C'mon, it's a Star Wars film. It's not meant to hold up to intense scrutiny.

 

There were criticisms about Imperator Furiosa in Mad Max: Fury Road too. Seems that some people don't like capable female characters in franchises that were traditionally male led.

 

I think that Rey would have been much more interesting if she'd had obvious flaws or weaknesses, and maybe make the resolution of them part of a character arc.

 

Warning: Spoilers and some speculation! (Click to show)
For example, Rey was abandoned as a child, and told to wait for someone who never turns up. It seems pretty obvious to me that she's related to the Skywalkers, so this could be tied into the search for Luke.
 
A couple of times Rey protests about having to get back to Jakku, but there doesn't seem to be much drive behind them. If these were played up a bit more then it would be like Finn wanting to find a hole on the Outer Rim where he could that he could crawl into and hide from the First Order. But have a conflict between that drive and getting BB-8 to the Resistance.
 
During the Force induced flashback at Maz's castle she has a vision of Luke abandoning her. So the quest for the MacGuffin becomes more personal, as she can find him and hopefully get answers.
 
(Throw in Kylo taunting her that her new friends cannot help, and the abandonment issues could make for an "all is lost" moment during or after the interrogation, if she's left in an emotionally wrecked state.)
 
Then at the close of the film she's got a reason for heading off to dig up Luke...
post #1555 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

I think that the only legit beef that people can have with regard to the Rey character is the flying of the MF.

Actually, what was more offensive to me was the fact that a ship, regularly maintained by Han and Chewy yet barely able to take off in the previous trilogy, was somehow in perfect working order after having sat idle for years.

A lot of the confusion could have been avoided with some creative character development of Rey... Like she worked for the owner of the ship and therefore maintained it and knew how to fly it, or something.
post #1556 of 2848
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
If Rey is Luke's daughter, and she was abandoned as a little girl to keep her safe when things went bad, then I'm not sure I get how the timeline works here. I think we are supposed to understand that Kylo Ren trained under Luke then turned to the dark side and killed all the other apprentice Jedi and destroyed the Jedi academy. Unless Ren did this when he was about 12 years old, I don't see how Rey would have been abandoned as such a young girl. Perhaps her memory was erased and replaced with false memories? Maybe she has only been on Jakku for a couple of years but thinks she has been there much longer.
post #1557 of 2848
Did anyone else notice the Mandalorian flag flying at the entrance of Maz's bar? I think there was a Rebel Alliiance flag and a Mandalore flag as part of all the stuff hanging at the entrance of the bar.
post #1558 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by ken View Post

A lot of the confusion could have been avoided with some creative character development of Rey... Like she worked for the owner of the ship and therefore maintained it and knew how to fly it, or something.

... can't tell if sarcasm ...

... want it to be sarcasm ...
post #1559 of 2848
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ken View Post

Actually, what was more offensive to me was the fact that a ship, regularly maintained by Han and Chewy yet barely able to take off in the previous trilogy, was somehow in perfect working order after having sat idle for years.

A lot of the confusion could have been avoided with some creative character development of Rey... Like she worked for the owner of the ship and therefore maintained it and knew how to fly it, or something.

Are you kidding?
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
You mean the exact creative character development we got in the film you are claiming to have watched? Did you miss the part were it was revealed she works for its owner? Rey is probably very familiar with it because she fixes stuff for him and has done work on the MF.

For fuck’s sake, there’s a line she exchanges with Han about how said ‘owner’ insisted on installing a part that obviously wouldn’t work, which is a clear demonstration that she is 1). Familiar with the ship and 2). Has had conversations about its workings with someone else.

‘But how is she such a good combat pilot?’ I don’t know, how the fuck did Luke Skywalker go from ‘bullseyeing Womprats in my T16’ to ‘Succeeding in the most important space battle in the history of the galaxy?’

It’s almost like force sensitives are special.


I swear half the nitpicking I hear about Rey in this film come from people who seem to have been updating their Twitter accounts or FB statuses instead of actually paying attention to what was going on.
Edited by Jr Mouse - 12/26/15 at 10:57am
post #1560 of 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr Mouse View Post

JJ isn't directing it. It's not his film.

Doesn't mean it can't make the same mistakes as ID. I mean if they are just going to keep mirroring stuff, can't go wrong with ESB. The second entry of any franchise really makes or breaks the saga IMO.
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