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The Fake Hate Crimes Thread - Page 18

post #256 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

It is probably part that and part the instant defense of the kid by the President and others. People need an us vs them story. Team Red vs Team Blue, etc.

That's got to be a big part of it. Even there, the expression of the backlash is interesting. Could have just been bashing the PC crowd for jumping to conclusions too quickly, but we got a bunch of people who are apparently intensely jealous of a 14 year old and need to discredit him along with paranoid fever dreams.
post #257 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by wojt View Post

I like Maher, I share many of his opinions, especially about political correctness.

Haven't bothered to watch the video yet, but Maher is super biased against Muslims. Irrationally so, like it's one of his really major blind spots. He's on the same wavelength there as Ben Carson, which makes for some interesting dynamics considering his usual uber-liberal stances.
post #258 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

It is probably part that and part the instant defense of the kid by the President and others. People need an us vs them story. Team Red vs Team Blue, etc.
Kinda like Shiites and Sunnis
post #259 of 557
The BS story gets the kid praise and invitations from billionaires, the President of the United States, and the United Nations -- and you're more interested in the backlash from bloggers? Pshaw!
post #260 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

It is probably part that and part the instant defense of the kid by the President and others. People need an us vs them story. Team Red vs Team Blue, etc.

i'd say it could calculated move as non-whites and liberals make much of his voters, that's why he took sides
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

Haven't bothered to watch the video yet, but Maher is super biased against Muslims. Irrationally so, like it's one of his really major blind spots. He's on the same wavelength there as Ben Carson, which makes for some interesting dynamics considering his usual uber-liberal stances.

Maybe he is biased but he is right imo, I am atheist myself and I can't help to agree with him on his views on religion, including Islam. His argumentation seems rational to me.
Edited by wojt - 9/24/15 at 7:04am
post #261 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post


Haven't bothered to watch the video yet, but Maher is super biased against Muslims. Irrationally so, like it's one of his really major blind spots. He's on the same wavelength there as Ben Carson, which makes for some interesting dynamics considering his usual uber-liberal stances.


I think Maher has a particular distaste for people or groups that are not only bigoted,sexist xenophobic and violent but justify their behavior by declaring it the "wiil of god". No matter how liberal you are you have to admit radical Islam fills that bill pretty well

post #262 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post


I think Maher has a particular distaste for people or groups that are not only bigoted,sexist xenophobic and violent but justify their behavior by declaring it the "wiil of god". No matter how liberal you are you have to admit radical Islam fills that bill pretty well

Maher's problem is that he openly equates every Muslim with radical Islam. It's his usual atheism shtick, but drawn with an even broader and uglier brush.
post #263 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

The BS story gets the kid praise and invitations from billionaires, the President of the United States, and the United Nations -- and you're more interested in the backlash from bloggers? Pshaw!

It's not just crazy bloggers though. The whole "he didn't even build a clock!" meme is widely prevalent, including that posting from Dawkins. I think it's interesting that people care so much about that angle. More interesting to me than the fairly predictable attempts to capitalize on a viral moment from politicians and businesses.
post #264 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

Maher's problem is that he openly equates every Muslim with radical Islam. It's his usual atheism shtick, but drawn with an even broader and uglier brush.

To me it is funny, because almost every atheist I personally know is as anti-Christian as Maher is ant-Muslim.
post #265 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

To me it is funny, because almost every atheist I personally know is as anti-Christian as Maher is ant-Muslim.

You must know some especially bile filled atheists. Tagut's anonymous Internet atheist crowd?
post #266 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

It's not just crazy bloggers though. The whole "he didn't even build a clock!" meme is widely prevalent, including that posting from Dawkins. I think it's interesting that people care so much about that angle. More interesting to me than the fairly predictable attempts to capitalize on a viral moment from politicians and businesses.

It's relevant in a number of ways. He says he built the clock and was proud of it so he brought it to school to show to his teachers. If that's not true, for one thing, it calls his credibility about everything else into question for saying things that aren't true. And it impacts the plausibility of the story, too: if all he did was cut an alarm clock up and put it into a case, what was he showing off? If there was no real accomplishment in putting it in the case, that (along with its resemblance to a bomb) suggests an ulterior motive.

I note, also, that you yourself acknowledged that millions of people (including the president of the united states and the entire mainstream media) were fawning over the kid as if he was some kind of genius when that's pretty clearly not the case. That tends to get people riled up and is a much more plausible explanation than jealousy over some 14-year-old getting undeserved attention.
post #267 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

It's relevant in a number of ways. He says he built the clock and was proud of it so he brought it to school to show to his teachers. If that's not true, for one thing, it calls his credibility about everything else into question for saying things that aren't true. And it impacts the plausibility of the story, too: if all he did was cut an alarm clock up and put it into a case, what was he showing off? If there was no real accomplishment in putting it in the case, that (along with its resemblance to a bomb) suggests an ulterior motive.
Assigning adult sensibilities to a 14 year old is going to lead to you to make irrational conclusions. Taking something apart, chopping it up, and getting it to work again in a new box is the kind of thing that a 14 year old could easily be irrationally proud of.

He's got a whole collection of little electronics projects like this. Why would anyone assume this one has some kind of ulterior motive? There are pretty clear motives without needing something sinister, it's just a geeky kid doing geek stuff. Maybe more evidence comes to light that changes that narrative, but it seems a pretty reasonable default.
Quote:
I note, also, that you yourself acknowledged that millions of people (including the president of the united states and the entire mainstream media) were fawning over the kid as if he was some kind of genius when that's pretty clearly not the case. That tends to get people riled up and is a much more plausible explanation than jealousy over some 14-year-old getting undeserved attention.

That's pretty much viral media culture. There's some new "genius" getting touted every week. I don't really know why people would bother getting riled up about it. Viral attention isn't earned or fair, it just boils out and rewards someone who captured public attention at that second and then goes away. I rolled my eyes at people calling Ahmed a genius, but that seems like a proportionate response and not anything bigger.

The President's comment was basically praising Ahmed for being interested in science. He didn't call him a genius, just said that more kids should be encouraged to pursue science. I think that's unambiguously a good message. Kids of all talent levels should be encouraged to try to think creatively, build things (even stupid things), and be proud of what they accomplish (even if it's not that objectively impressive).

That's a hell of a lot more positive and productive for society than a bunch of adults bashing him for not really inventing a clock. Even actually building an electronic clock wouldn't be all that impressive, but who gives a shit?
post #268 of 557
The kid does not deserve the backlash but the backlash is completely understandable given the rather loaded (SWIDT?) and selective nature of championing by certain parties, i.e. Obama. For a guy that keeps telling us he's everyone's POTUS, level playing field, post-racial, etc. it's rather obvious he's not and it pisses off millions of Americans that he so carefully picks where/when to insert himself and the manner in which he does it.

Kid is just a pawn at this point and unfortunately they have some of this crap splash back on them. His adult white knights are as much to blame as his detractors as it was inevitable how this would develop once it stopped being a story about some local adults being stupid and hit the national stage and pretty much broke down into the predictable camps. This kid, dinosaur rifle hunting kid, etc. are now just proxies for the usual partisan and culture battles.

Only difference is dino-boy isn't getting a trip to the White House and probably a scholarship to MIT.
post #269 of 557
Quote:
For a guy that keeps telling us he's everyone's POTUS, level playing field, post-racial, etc. it's rather obvious he's not and it pisses off millions of Americans that he so carefully picks where/when to insert himself and the manner in which he does it.

I was interested in that idea earlier, was going to mention that it would be nice for Obama to have given props to kids who had actually accomplished something substantive. It turns out that the last batch of Intel Talent Search winners visited Obama at the White House. It just didn't get any attention because there's no drama.

A lot of the supposed hypocrisy of the President (and previous Presidents, no doubt) is just the differing levels of publicity comments get. Obama got bashed for not expressing sympathy for the families of slain police officers in favor of pushing the Black Lives Matter line, but you can find that Obama issued statements for most of the police killings. They just don't get much attention because they're the sort of routine statement we all expect Presidents to make.

Of course he does focus his energy unevenly and there are consequences to that, but I don't suspect it's nearly as bad as many people think.
Quote:
Kid is just a pawn at this point and unfortunately they have some of this crap splash back on them
That's got to be true. These stories seemingly invariably turn into ink blots to project your own agenda onto.

The huge alleged Islamaphobia furor certainly did the kid no favors. It turns it into a culture war issue immediately.
post #270 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

Maher's problem is that he openly equates every Muslim with radical Islam. It's his usual atheism shtick, but drawn with an even broader and uglier brush.

He really doesn't. I watch his show every week and he has to constantly make that distinction clear to certain guests, most recently Jorge Ramos. It's a deflection used by uber politically correct guests on his show. The only argument they ever have is "it's not all Muslims," as if the tremendous problem with Islam just needs to be overlooked or downplayed because it's not every single Muslim on the face of the planet. The left uses the same deflection to avoid almost every issue that relates to minority groups.
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