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Microsoft Surface - Page 5

post #61 of 143
To each his own I guess, I find the ribbon intuitive. Granted, the headings options take up way too much room on the ribbon, but auto-previewing fonts is pretty neat. Ever try to pass around a redline draft from Open, btw?

As far as Metro goes for the OS and Phone UI....I want to like it...I really do...but can't shake the whole "wow this is incredibly stupid" feeling when I see it in action.

First Ubuntu gets all cocked up with the new Gnome, then Win 8 with this Metro garbage. Now I'm reading that the next generation of Intel chips will be pin-less, WTF?! What are these morons doing to my beloved PC?! Does Intel really think I'm going to go for one of these overpriced janky "Ultrabooks" that actually cost more than Macbook Airs and do less? Plz.
post #62 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by javyn View Post

To each his own I guess, I find the ribbon intuitive. Granted, the headings options take up way too much room on the ribbon, but auto-previewing fonts is pretty neat. Ever try to pass around a redline draft from Open, btw?

No, I don't redline drafts or anything like that. I dictate letters and type briefs. I don't do much contract law so there's no need for revisions.
Quote:
First Ubuntu gets all cocked up with the new Gnome, then Win 8 with this Metro garbage. Now I'm reading that the next generation of Intel chips will be pin-less, WTF?! What are these morons doing to my beloved PC?! Does Intel really think I'm going to go for one of these overpriced janky "Ultrabooks" that actually cost more than Macbook Airs and do less? Plz.

Ugh, is that true? I hadn't heard this. Why are they killing off the very industry that supports them? There's nothing wrong with alternatives, I'd never tell Microsoft not to release Metro for tablets, but why are they forsaking the business world?
post #63 of 143
post #64 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey_birdman View Post

Listen to yourself, man. "Charms." "Charms bar." "Share keys." How can I take an OS seriously that has a "Charms bar?"
Just my prediction but MS loses its business and professionals base over this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr Mouse View Post

Every time you reboot the machine, you enter the new desktop UI. This is forced on the user. It's not really a fair take to say you can choose to "enter the classic desktop and never leave it."

No, it won't lose any of the business user base over this because they don't buy software the way you do. When businesses buy volume licenses, they get downgrade rights, which means that when they buy new windows 8 volume licenses, they can use those same licenses to go ahead and install windows 7, which most are planning on doing anyway since we're nearing the end of XP support and no large enterprises will have time to prep a launch of windows 8 and they'll want to avoid the training costs. MS knows this and fully expects businesses to continue with Windows 7, which will be supported until 2019. Even if MS sticks to normal release schedules or releasing every 3 years (and there are some indications that they will start shipping smaller updates once a year), there will be two more major versions before most companies have to upgrade from windows 7. Windows 8 is mainly intended as a consumer release and as a product that will set them up for the future. It's not going to cost them any business on the enterprise side. And on the enterprise side, their software stack is now stronger than ever.

JR, I said I went to desktop after the OS loaded and never really returned to metro, not that I booted into desktop. Still, it takes a single keypress or click of the mouse after it boots to go into the desktop mode and then you really don't have to leave it if you don't want to. The start screen is a start menu on steroids. In terms of keypresses and number of clicks, everything is the same or faster.

Anyway... It's a major transitional product and they ARE forcing it down consumers' throats. They are doing this so that devs can be confident that within a year there will be 100+ million people using Metro so that they will actually develop for it. It's hardly perfect but all the bitching over the start screen is annoying because if you work from the desktop i'd be very surprised if most people need more than a few applications pinned to the taskbar. And for stuff that's not pinned? hit start and then type. It's exactly the same as in 7 except the "start menu" is full screen.
post #65 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQgeek View Post


JR, I said I went to desktop after the OS loaded and never really returned to metro, not that I booted into desktop. Still, it takes a single keypress or click of the mouse after it boots to go into the desktop mode and then you really don't have to leave it if you don't want to..

As I said, I've installed that Start8 program on my preinstalled Windows8 laptop and now I boot directly to the desktop ( which is a configuration feature of Start8 ). I also can of course go to the Metro UI ( which I seldom do ) with a single key click.

Believe it or not, this really makes a differnce to a user like me. And I'm starting to like W8s increased speed and other definite advantages. It doesn't seem like this is a disaster like Vista was though I don't see W8 as a big success.

I did read that there are already rumors of a "W8 & 1/2" consumer upgrade in the future, removing the Metro UI and leaving all the other desktop improvements plus adding a few more.

I wonder what people would say if Apple had released a new version of OS X with iOS 6.0.1 grafted onto it, and installed it on non-touch IMacs and Macs. Then in theory Mac users could use their beloved OS X as well as having access to iOS 6.0.1 apps that they use on their phones and Ipads.
post #66 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr Mouse View Post

Every time you reboot the machine, you enter the new desktop UI. This is forced on the user. It's not really a fair take to say you can choose to "enter the classic desktop and never leave it."

Unless you have a shitty IT department that pushes updates all the time (*cough*), most competent users are probably only rebooting once a month or less anyway. Shouldn't be a big deal.

I haven't used Win8, but I'm still predominantly a desktop user and have little plans on changing that. I use my PC for writing, working up data, etc, and tablets/touchscreens suck donkey scrotum for that. A whole OS centered around that it not going to make the enterprise users happy, I would guess.


Also add me to the list of people who think the updated Office interface sucks.
post #67 of 143
You'll love Office 2010 when the new ones will all be in the Cloud and micro-charge the shit out of LOL
post #68 of 143
It seems Windows 8 isn't a huge failure after all. It's already sold 40 million copies. That's 40 million IN ONE MONTH. Yes, a big chunk of those are OEM and volume licensing and they have the $40 upgrade deal, but it is still outpacing windows 7 upgrades at the same point in its life. It's still only a month in but it seems to be doing just fine.

Full article:
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/11/windows-8-sales-are-good-if-not-great-at-40-million-copies-in-the-first-month/
post #69 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by javyn View Post

You'll love Office 2010 when the new ones will all be in the Cloud and micro-charge the shit out of LOL

I suspect most people will really like office 2013 because it puts skydrive front and center and most have gotten over ribbon changes by now. Skydrive is now the default location to save documents to. Tech savvy people might have been aware of dropbox/skydrive and other such things, but for a lot of people that use office in some capacity, skydrive and what you can do with it will be a revelation for them.

The licensing of Office is going to be an interesting experiment. Whereas before you'd pay $350 upfront for Home and Business (outlook, word, excel, PowerPoint, OneNote) or whatever and get rights to install on 2 machines belonging to the same user, there is now no option for that. It'll only be available to a single user per copy and there will be a simultaneous reduction in price (from $249 for the single install version of 2010 H&B to $219 for the 2013 version).

However, you can now pay for an Office 365 Home Premium subscription, which includes Word, Excel, PowerPoint, OneNote, Outlook, Publisher, Access, SkyDrive with an additional 20 GB of storage, and 60 minutes of free Skype calls each month, all for $99.99 a year. 365 Home Premium actually contains the same applications that Office Professional 2010 contains, but that costs $670 for 2 computers. The Office 365 HP sub on the other hand gives you a household license that is good for 5 computers. You can install locally or use the web apps. Or if you're not on your computer and need a full copy asap, you can stream the full applications and when you're done it will uninstall itself.

Given that both my wife and I use Office and will likely have 5 computers between us at some point (desktop, 2 laptops, 2 tablets), that's a pretty sweet deal. I don't care that I don't own it when the deal is that attractive (I'm beyond the age of messing around with pirated copies).
post #70 of 143
Maybe I was wrong then. I'd be surprised if I am, but maybe I am.
post #71 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

Unless you have a shitty IT department that pushes updates all the time (*cough*), most competent users are probably only rebooting once a month or less anyway. Shouldn't be a big deal.


Most users tend to be far from competent in my experience.
post #72 of 143
http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/29/3706866/surface-pro-january-price-availability

Surface Pro will come in 2 versions:
$899 for 64GB
$999 for 128GB

Both come with an active digitizer for pen input, 10.6" 1920x1080 screen (compared to 1366x768 on 11" air or 1440x900 on 13" MBA), 4GB RAM, core i5 CPU (maybe the ULV version of the chip), a 42W-h batter (11" air is 35W-h, 13" is 50W-h).

It weights 1.99lbs compared to the Air's 2.38

And now the downside... MS tweeted it'll have approx. half the battery life of the Surface RT.
post #73 of 143
You don't think the price is also a downside? That's rather expensive for a "tablet" in this competitive market. Remember that's what MS is going to market this device as, so it's going to be cross shopped by consumers as such.

EDIT: Plus it's way too heavy to be used comfortably as a tablet, so why even bother designing it to be used as one? Just make it a thin and light laptop with a touchscreen and market it as such.

I'm just not sure I believe the Surface Pro going to make the type of inroads with consumers that MS desires. Too heavy and expensive for a tablet with shitty battery-life compared to the competition and not a strong enough product as a laptop.
Edited by Jr Mouse - 11/29/12 at 2:14pm
post #74 of 143
Wow, I just realized they are not bundling a touch cover in with the Surface Pro's either. This adds $120 per device. So realistically this makes your initial investment closer to $1020 for the cheaper one, then $899. I don't get it. Who is the market for these "tablets"?

To be clear, I do get the Surface RT. As a product it completely makes sense to me and is compelling. Well if you ignore the fact that it still has Desktop and asks you use Office apps with a shitty hacked on touch mode, that is. wink.gif
Edited by Jr Mouse - 11/29/12 at 2:39pm
post #75 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr Mouse View Post

I don't get it. Who is the market for these "tablets"?

I was going to say "rich assholes", but I think Apple's lock on that target is in no danger.

(edit: Not me though, I'm a cool down to earth type Apple device owning dude)
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