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Microsoft Surface - Page 4

post #46 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey_birdman View Post

Apple's is not nearly so childlike. And Apple is not used by the vast majority of business people. I'm not talking about a product that will be a hit with college coeds, I'm talking about the operating system used by your accountant or your lawyer. They are not going to use this abomination. Microsoft has never been as popular with the kids as Apple has been, and they're free to move in that area but they are abandoning the people who currently use their product. Microsoft is going to lose its user base over this.
EDIT -
Compare -

vs.

Mountain Lion is clear and simple. Windows 8 is a fucking jigsaw puzzle for kids with ADHD.

Except you can go to the desktop and choose to never leave it, and then it's basically windows 7 with improvements, some quite major ones like the included hyper-v virtualization. Yes, it does require changing the way you do things a bit, but if you bother to learn instead of just posting snide remarks, you'd quickly figure out that you can do everything you can do in windows 7 faster and easier in windows 8, despite metro. Newer desktops and laptops will also ship with keyboards/mice more suited towards the new OS (touchable peripherals with charms and share keys, etc) making certain tasks less awkward, particularly accessing the charms bar on the right side of the screen.

I have Windows 8 installed on my desktop and laptop, neither of which are touch-enabled. This is how I use it:
1) When I turn on the PC, the Start screen shows me a quick overview of mail, news, calendar appointments, weather, markets, etc. I can see it all at a glance.
2) Then I go to check email, if it's needed, or look at a more detailed forecast, depending on what I saw on the home screen, or look at stocks depending on ticker.. You get the idea.
3) I then spend the rest of day in the desktop, rarely looking at the start screen. The apps I use frequently are pinned. For everything else, I hit start and type, which is no different than in windows 7 except that the search runs faster. I'm doing this on a several years old Lenovo x200. It performs better than windows 7 did.

There are rough edged in the metro side, no doubt about it, but the desktop side is very refined and better for power users than windows 7 was, with much faster access to certain things that are frequently used by such people. The metro side is very much version 1.0 software. The included apps need work, but MS has all but promised to iterate quickly.
post #47 of 143
Someone gave me a new Asus mid-level laptop, non touch, with preinstalled W8.

At first I hated it, especially the default Start and the Metro UI, so I used desktop exclusively.

But I didn't enjoy that either because of the lack of a start button.I'm old school and def not a power user.

Someone told me about the Start8 app that restores the start button and can configure the machine pretty much as a non Metro device. I like it a lot more and it's probably a quicker and more stable laptop than my HP which had about the same hardware but preinstalled Windows 7 as the OS.

Has anyone else installed Start8 on a non touch Windows 8 machine?
post #48 of 143
i think the MS tutorial was a little too basic, especially for people upgrading with non-touch hardware or without dedicated win8 keys. A couple of hotkeys are useful so you don't have to move your mouse to the corners.

Bring up charms menu: Start+c
desktop: start+d
windows tools menu (easy access to control panel etc): start+X
post #49 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQgeek View Post


Except you can go to the desktop and choose to never leave it, and then it's basically windows 7 with improvements

Does Win 8 have virtual desktops out of the box?
post #50 of 143
What do you mean by "virtual desktops"? If you mean the Linux type of thing were you have several desktops screens that you can switch between (like on an iphone) then no.

If you mean the ability to run virtual machines, yes. It comes with the same hypervisor that Windows Server now comes with. You just have to turn it on. Guest OS support is more limited than VMware, but it supports all windows versions and some Linux distributions. It's also not quite as full-featured as VMware workstation, but my guess is that for 90% of virtualization needs at home, it will suffice.
post #51 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQgeek View Post

Except you can go to the desktop and choose to never leave it, and then it's basically windows 7 with improvements, some quite major ones like the included hyper-v virtualization. Yes, it does require changing the way you do things a bit, but if you bother to learn instead of just posting snide remarks, you'd quickly figure out that you can do everything you can do in windows 7 faster and easier in windows 8, despite metro. Newer desktops and laptops will also ship with keyboards/mice more suited towards the new OS (touchable peripherals with charms and share keys, etc) making certain tasks less awkward, particularly accessing the charms bar on the right side of the screen.

Listen to yourself, man. "Charms." "Charms bar." "Share keys." How can I take an OS seriously that has a "Charms bar?"

Just my prediction but MS loses its business and professionals base over this.
post #52 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQgeek View Post

Except you can go to the desktop and choose to never leave it, and then it's basically windows 7 with improvements


Every time you reboot the machine, you enter the new desktop UI. This is forced on the user. It's not really a fair take to say you can choose to "enter the classic desktop and never leave it."
post #53 of 143
Sorry GQ....but the days of this snide/adversarial "Just learn something new" attitude towards consumers is, thanks to iOS, deader than Dillinger. I've found that most people at offices (ones that I've been to at least) still bang their keyboards and scream at the ribbon across the top of their Word 2010 windows...I'm not exactly seeing a mad rush towards Metro UI by business users. I could be wrong, but so far Win8 is looking like a disaster.
post #54 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr Mouse View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by GQgeek View Post

Except you can go to the desktop and choose to never leave it, and then it's basically windows 7 with improvements


Every time you reboot the machine, you enter the new desktop UI. This is forced on the user. It's not really a fair take to say you can choose to "enter the classic desktop and never leave it."

I can't believe I'm going to agree with Mouse on something, but +1 to the above. I can't fathom why MS would have chosen in Windows 8 to force together two completely different UI experiences that are suitable for two different classes of devices. The only explanation that makes any sense to me is that they are building familiarity with their near-zero-market-share mobile OS by forcing their huge base of desktop users to use it. It's really too bad because the classic desktop side of Win8 really is good. And what's really dumbfounding is that after finally building some credibility in the enterprise application space, MS is going to alienate lots of their power users who were responsible for building that credibility. What network admin or enterprise developer wants to muck around with a bunch of candy-colored tiles with Facebook updates on his workstation?

And the artificial firewall between WinRT and the classic desktop is really stupid. Want to copy/paste text between a desktop and RT app? Can't do it. Want to click on an email address in an RT app and have it launch an email composition window in Outlook? Can't do it. Want to develop or deploy an app as available for either RT or desktop? Can't do it. I wish I had the foresight to think of the Start8 app. Those guys are going to make a killing.
post #55 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey_birdman View Post

Listen to yourself, man. "Charms." "Charms bar." "Share keys." How can I take an OS seriously that has a "Charms bar?"


Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey_birdman View Post

Just my prediction but MS loses its business and professionals base over this.

nod[1].gif
post #56 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by javyn View Post

Sorry GQ....but the days of this snide/adversarial "Just learn something new" attitude towards consumers is, thanks to iOS, deader than Dillinger. I've found that most people at offices (ones that I've been to at least) still bang their keyboards and scream at the ribbon across the top of their Word 2010 windows...I'm not exactly seeing a mad rush towards Metro UI by business users. I could be wrong, but so far Win8 is looking like a disaster.

Most of us are using Office 2003 and XP here.
post #57 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeDT View Post

Most of us are using Office 2003 and XP here.

I've been using Open Office for 2 years now. Word 2010 sucks giant donkey balls. Change for the sake of change is not an improvement.
post #58 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by dah328 View Post

. I wish I had the foresight to think of the Start8 app. Those guys are going to make a killing.

Yeah, I downloaded it and I like W8 a lot better.

It costs $5 and there are also 3 or 4 free apps available that "install" a start button.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=start+button&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4PRFB_enUS480US481&q=start+button+windows+8&gs_l=hp..1.0l4.0.0.0.11048...........0.vRV_uRZTvi0&pbx=1

I think that the Start8 app has over 2,000,000 downloads at $5 a pop. That is not bad for a very simple add-on that MS must have considered, and then purposely decided to not offer though they obviously could have. I wish I had GQgeek's computer skills and had thought of an idea like Start8!!!!!

As I said I received a laptop with preinstalled W8 home premium as a gift. It is incrementally better than W7 for someone like me and I will use it as I've now configured it with Start8.

Would I recommend a machine with preinstalled W8 to anyone ( if they didn't have to buy something right then ). Absolutely not. As to an upgrade from W7, I would tell them to do a lot of Googling and wait till Service Pack 1 before upgrading, if at all.

As to predictions as to enterprise market and the reception the OS gets, I see similarities and differences to Vista. It's definitely a better OS than Vista but it was not well thought out with regard to the dual UIs and that will hurt it with businesses.

How many businesses switched from XP to Vista? I predict not many more will switch from XP, or W7 to W8. Though MS will never admit it, I think this was another mistake that will erode their vaunted enterprise market.

Finally, here's an idea for one of you student type computer guys. When Vista first came out there was a cottage industry of people offering to switch the OS on Vista machines back to XP. I think there will be a niche for the same sort of thing with W8. To you computer guys, is this likely? I heard they changed the BIOS somehow in W8 designed machines. Would a "downgrade" to W7 be easy and feasible? I'm not saying that's a good idea but I have a gut feeling that a lot of people would pay to have their preinstalled W8 machines switched to W7.
post #59 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey_birdman View Post

I've been using Open Office for 2 years now. Word 2010 sucks giant donkey balls. Change for the sake of change is not an improvement.

Word 2010 is yet another added job security for me, the lawyers here HATE it. I honestly love it myself, the ribbon just makes sense to me, and whatever I can't find is only a quick google search away. But yeah, drop an update that's been completely redesigned on a busy lawyer or exec and say "just take the time to learn something new!".....see what kinda response you get.

And Open Office doesn't suck donkey balls by the way? LOL
post #60 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by javyn View Post

Word 2010 is yet another added job security for me, the lawyers here HATE it. I honestly love it myself, the ribbon just makes sense to me, and whatever I can't find is only a quick google search away. But yeah, drop an update that's been completely redesigned on a busy lawyer or exec and say "just take the time to learn something new!".....see what kinda response you get.
And Open Office doesn't suck donkey balls by the way? LOL

I only use the word document program and Open Office is uncluttered and clear and sanely organized. Word 2010 is just stupid. It's something designed for children to use, not a serious professional.

I mean look at the differences:

Untitled-1.png

What's up with all that garbage on the Word 2010 bar? Why the fuck would anyone who isn't a twelve year old girl need access to a dozen colourful and expressive fonts with an auto-preview of what they look like? And that takes up nearly half the "home" bar. And of course to insert a footnote you don't go under a drop down menu like every fucking word processor has done since the beginning of time and is not at all inconvenient or anything. No, of course not, you have to go to some shitty other bar called "references", then find your way through the maze of dumb looking shit to actually insert the footnote.

There is no benefit whatsoever to the changes they made. It's like if Microsoft decided to update the keyboard and rearrange the letters to organize all the vowels together. It's just fucking dumb.
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