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Faux Demi-Glace - Page 3

post #31 of 58
I like both of his books very much. You have to like/love to cook though. These aren't books for people who simply like to eat and entertain well.

Also I think you need to cook for a number of years (perhaps decades) before you pick up the "rhythm" of meal planning and recipes.

At most nice restaurants you can get a lot of nice fancy dishes that to some degree are marketing. If you opt for a multi-course meal -- even tasting menu -- it's almost like a song with too many guitar solos.

I like to plan nice multi-course meals and have each course have a role. One might be largely visual, another olfactory, another texture. I also think it is very important to have a true dinner course where the recipe is relatively simple but the cooking technique is paramount (as should be the wine -- for this course it's wine first food second). With enough experience you can plan a 5-7 course real nice dinner without having to constantly disappear into the kitchen between courses.

Also, when you read recipes you'll learn which things really matter. You can't follow a recipe as if it's a formula. When someone says add a half a lemon -- what size is it, how acidic, how sweet, how juicy. All this stuff varies and you need to judge and taste.
post #32 of 58
Manton, a few questions. For the past week I've been looking into getting a China cap for stocks. I suppose I also need a chinois for sauces. Any particular brands? I don't want to spend too much for such occasional use. ebay has some for under $20 and here in Philly there's Fante's, which has them in the $50 range. Also, isn't glace de viand simply demi glace reduced to about 1/4?
post #33 of 58
A few comments...

I think bones are preferable to meat, especially if they are veal bones which have a lot more collagen than beef. I like to use a 50:50 ratio of veal to beef bones in my demi. I don't use any meat...Last time I believe I used about 16 pounds of bones total.

Otherwise the recipie I use is very similar to what Manton posted.

I have two 25 quart stainless (Lincoln Centurion) stock pots that I use for simmeriing and the reduction. Which I take down to a few quarts of stock and then a few cups of demi.

The More Than Gourmet concentrate isn't terrible. But it has a taste that's easily discernable after a few dishes.

If you don't want to make a demi, another option is to reduce a nice dark chicken stock...not the same but will give a similar punch to a home made dish. It's not about the specifics, it's about the love

-spence
post #34 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by mano View Post
For the past week I've been looking into getting a China cap for stocks. I suppose I also need a chinois for sauces. Any particular brands?
Get a cheap China Cap and a nice Chinois which will cost 60+ full retail.

-spence
post #35 of 58
Very impressive Manton. Like all of the best writing on food, it makes wonderful reading even if you have no intention of attempting to make it yourself.
post #36 of 58
While reasonable people would all be aware of the clear dangers presented by sauces to clothing, I can't help but noting that such an esoteric branch of French gastronomy would need a sufficently elegant costume to heighten the ritual. Isn't that what tradition is all about--ritual?
post #37 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mano View Post
For the past week I've been looking into getting a China cap for stocks. I suppose I also need a chinois for sauces. Any particular brands? I don't want to spend too much for such occasional use. ebay has some for under $20 and here in Philly there's Fante's, which has them in the $50 range.
I agree with spence. If you skimp, skimp on the China cap. Or just skip it, and use a colander. A China cap works better, in my opinion, but not that much better.

But don't skimp on the chinois. Expect a good one to cost at least $60. Good ones have a very strong, yet very fine, multilayered mesh that catches a lot of gunk. Way better than any strainer or colander.

Quote:
Also, isn't glace de viand simply demi glace reduced to about 1/4?
No, glace de viand is reduced stock. Finished demi-glace should be thick on its own. Reducing it to 1/4 would make it damn near a solid, I would guess. Anyway, to get glace de viande, you reduce stock until it is syrupy thick. That might be 1/4, it might be more, it might be less. Certainly, half won't get you all the way there.

Glace de viande is often used as a demi-glace substitute. Some chefs prefer it because they dislike roux-based sauces, both on general principle, and because they say they can taste the flour, and because they say that roux adds unwelcome fat. Perhaps, but I have always been able to extract nearly every molecule fat from my sauces.
post #38 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
I think bones are preferable to meat, especially if they are veal bones which have a lot more collagen than beef. I like to use a 50:50 ratio of veal to beef bones in my demi. I don't use any meat...Last time I believe I used about 16 pounds of bones total.
I prefer to have some meat in there. If not half and half, then maybe 1/3 meat, 2/3 bones. I haven't made an all bone stock in a long time; perhaps I should try and see how it goes. In the original recipes, bones were not used at all (except in the case of game birds). They were substituted later, as an economy measure. Some books I have read swear up and down that an all bone stock will never have the same flaver as one with meat.
post #39 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
I prefer to have some meat in there. If not half and half, then maybe 1/3 meat, 2/3 bones. I haven't made an all bone stock in a long time; perhaps I should try and see how it goes. In the original recipes, bones were not used at all (except in the case of game birds). They were substituted later, as an economy measure. Some books I have read swear up and down that an all bone stock will never have the same flaver as one with meat.
I can certainly understand the difference in flavor. My concern would be if could extract enough gellatin to give the demi that velvet texture that's so great.

I'll have to give it a try when I do the next batch.

Thanks for the info...

-spence
post #40 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
I can certainly understand the difference in flavor. My concern would be if could extract enough gellatin to give the demi that velvet texture that's so great.
That's what the pig's foot is for. They can be a bitch to find, however.
post #41 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
That's what the pig's foot is for. They can be a bitch to find, however.

Then try someplace other than a kosher market.
post #42 of 58
Pig's feet can be frequently be found in Chinese markets.
post #43 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LabelKing View Post
Pig's feet can be frequently be found in Chinese markets.

Mexican, too.
post #44 of 58
As always, Manton has another excellent post on his belt which I might say are not only informative but also has a bit of wit to them as well. I will attempt the demi-glace in the near future as I should have enough bones in the fridge within the next two weeks. I was wondering that is the best meat price-wise to use? I am figuring some tough piece of meat with a lot of connective tissue. I am thinking like meat from the chuck. Any other type of cuts I should consider? I find marrow bone down in chinatown all the time. Pan-seared and throw in the oven for a few. Break out the spoon and some salt and I goto town. I can't imagine how bad it is for the arteries but damn, marrow is the best.
post #45 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HitMan009 View Post
I was wondering that is the best meat price-wise to use?

Anything cheap. Usually, the cheapest stuff I find is shank, with a little round bone the middle.

Don't worry about fat content or connective tissue. If you are careful about de-greasing, you will get all of that out before the stock is used.
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