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Saint Laurent Paris - Official Thread. - Page 580post #8687 of 149621/28/16 at 10:38am
fascinating. but I can't help but think ip is misused in this context. so often people think they have an intuitive sense of what ip is or can refer to and they're way off. as I said, ip rarely ever captures fashion/clothes, it can't capture store design either, SLP TMs can't be owned by hedi. so what could this refer too?
my point is that neither he NOR kering 'own' ip rights in the designs, because there never are any. except trademarks.
it could be that the brand cannot refer to things as Hedi Slimane for YSL when he goes, should they keep producing his designs. can you elaborate anymore?post #8688 of 149621/28/16 at 10:39ampost #8689 of 149621/28/16 at 10:43amlol, i actually have no idea what the ip clause is, i was equally puzzled. it just kind of randomly came up in a discussion the other day. my guess is that like you said it has do with his name, given the history of that being how dior tried to fuck him over when he walked last time
on another note i have to say the more stuff i get from this season the more impressed i am, it's really pretty great once you take away the trucker hat style shitpieces. the only thing weirdly that i haven't grabbed some of is the bombers, ironically.post #8690 of 149621/28/16 at 11:05am
I've only got two of the flannels so far. the t shirts don't do anything for me. I was strangely impressed with the distressed sneakers and am going to pick up a pair of the lows real soon.
waiting on the palm tree silk bomber. I regret not getting the t-rex one (so nice in person) now that its sold out everywhere, and they aren't making anymore.post #8691 of 149621/28/16 at 11:11am
@neonrider does the SS16 L17 fit TTS? Thanks!
@chipskylurk thanks for the heads up!
Is this the jacket Hedi is wearing in V:
From my admittedly pedestrian knowledge of IP in fashion, aside from trademarks, you can copyright small details if you can prove that they would mislead consumers into buying something. i.e.. Louboutin's red soles. Supposedly France enforces this stuff pretty severely.
As interested as I am to see what Hedi would do with Chanel, I still feel like it's kind of a shame he's leaving SLP, given all that he's managed to do there in only a few short years. Plus even if I could afford the Chanel pieces, I'd have to visit their store to get them.post #8692 of 149621/28/16 at 11:15ampost #8693 of 149621/28/16 at 11:17amyes, it fits tts.
yes, hedi's wearing the western jacket (a slightly different version).
in general the L01 and L17 are v different jackets. L01's much lighter and more delicate, L17 needs to be beaten up for a few months for it to really look its best. they're more complements than substitutes.post #8694 of 149621/28/16 at 11:20amQuote:
That's a fair point, I just needed to choose one to buy now. Hopefully the L01 sticks around for a while so I can pick it up in the future.
I figured I'd diversify my SL collection before buying two biker jackets.post #8695 of 149621/28/16 at 11:24amQuote:
if it is tongue in cheek, they are awesome.Quote:
this is exactly what I was talking about. ip rights get so conflated by non-specialists. the louboutin red sole was actually a TM dispute. the issue was that the red soles were never registered as a TM. and so the question was: can the red sole be said to be distinctive of a certain brand from continued use, such that they indeed function as a TM? this was YSL pre-hedi by the way. so if anyone accuses him of ripping things off etc. they ought to be reminded that pilati actually sent red soled high heels down the runway.
copyright is a totally different thing, and is virtually never invoked in fashion. only when designers copy 'artistic works' that adorn a t-shirt. for example, say someone ripped off the 'too late' not quite exactly onto a shirt. Kering would say that they own the copyright not in the shirt, but in the artistic work. the question would then be, is the design of 'too late' sufficiently original to attract a copyright of 70 years. if so, then the copying shirt would be said to infringe the SLP one.
a less contentious example would be someone putting the bruce conner design on a denim jacket. again, the jacket wouldn't be the problem. it would be the art work itself. bruce conner would sue, saying that they copied his work. Kering could only sue if they were given permission via the license to use the work from bruce conner.post #8696 of 149621/28/16 at 12:51pm
The most valuable property Hedi created at Saint Laurent was probably the tailoring and actual patterns used to cut and create the pieces, since, to my knowledge, designs at that level (and not just ‘it sort of looks like the same’ designs) can fall under copyright.
So let’s say Hedi does retain ownership over the designs and patterns he created while he was there— With him gone, Saint Laurent could still release biker jackets, teddy jackets, and skinny jeans, but not with the specific designs he created (so not the same cut and tailoring). It isn’t unimaginable to think that if Kering was presented with this in a contract, they’d think, ‘Whatever, we’ll just make new skinny jeans if we have to,’ without realizing the value of Hedi’s designs.
This unfolding would be hard to believe, but contract oversights do happen.post #8697 of 149621/28/16 at 1:05pm
the (actual) leather looks vintage...then got ribbed cuffs and waistband.
cant see pics clear enough but looks like could be raglan sleeves (doubtful though).
the loose sleeves, short body and collar size and shape looks vintage too.post #8698 of 149621/28/16 at 1:06pm
The only thing subject to copyright there would be the actual schematics (not sure this is the correct fashion term) -- like blueprints. but this only applies to the specific pieces of paper and has little relation to the finished product. there is nothing stopping anyone from taking any of his tailored garments and reverse engineering them to exact specification -- unless he could show that they had access to actual copies of the schematics.post #8699 of 149621/28/16 at 1:10pm
I'm pretty sure they'll keep selling Hedi designed items if he leaves. Kerring would have to be insane to allow a contract that forbids his designs from being sold after he goes, when they were paying him to create them, using materials paid for by the company, on equipment belonging to the company, in an atelier owned by the company. If that's the case, then whoever wrote the contract should be sacked, and whoever takes over Hedi's role has got a hell of a task ahead of them having to completely start over from scratch. What about the packaging - will he forbid them from using that too? Very unlikely.
Surely if he was going to have a clause like that in the contract, then some kind of a royalty system would be much more beneficial to both parties.post #8700 of 149621/28/16 at 1:15pmQuote:Originally Posted by therattler
The only thing subject to copyright there would be the actual schematics (not sure this is the correct fashion term) -- like blueprints. but this only applies to the specific pieces of paper and has little relation to the finished product. there is nothing stopping anyone from taking any of his tailored garments and reverse engineering them to exact specification -- unless he could show that they had access to actual copies of the schematics.
I know almost nothing about the legal side of this, but from a common sense point of view, it would surely be impossible to take something as common as a two button notch lapel blazer and stake some kind of claim over it because of the particular cut / proportion.
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