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How we remember Shoa and other atrocities - Page 9

post #121 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo View Post

i found this hilarious for some reason

I used to say "no, really we don't" but they didn't believe me. now I just wink...
post #122 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLMountainMan View Post

It looks as if my minions are working overtime.
About Holocaust Museums - how long do you think they'll be able to focus exclusively on the Holocaust? I think they have an advantage in the wealth base of their target constituency, but I think at some point they'll probably expand their scope to focus on genocide against other peoples, if they don't already. I think that's unfortunate, but probably unavoidable. The Holocaust is unique - probably the last genocide conducted by a First World country's government. (At least until the anti-Arab pogroms begin in Europe rolleyes.gif)
No Holocaust museum focuses solely on the Holocaust, so...
post #123 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLMountainMan View Post

It looks as if my minions are working overtime.
About Holocaust Museums - how long do you think they'll be able to focus exclusively on the Holocaust? I think they have an advantage in the wealth base of their target constituency, but I think at some point they'll probably expand their scope to focus on genocide against other peoples, if they don't already. I think that's unfortunate, but probably unavoidable. The Holocaust is unique - probably the last genocide conducted by a First World country's government. (At least until the anti-Arab pogroms begin in Europe rolleyes.gif)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teger View Post

No Holocaust museum focuses solely on the Holocaust, so...

i am pretty sure the "yad v'shem" museum in israel is strictly holocaust related, at least the last time i was there it was, and i do not see that changing. i also think that is a very good thing. i understand the various needs for holocaust museums in the states to become more inclusive. whether or not i agree with it, i do understand it. however, i think that it is important that there be at least on place, that is solely dedicated to the memory of the holocaust. it would be nice if there was one in the states as well.

does anyone know what the museum in DC houses in this regard?
post #124 of 125
Very interesting thread. GT and FLMM great perspective to this topic.
post #125 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teger View Post

no, FLMM is wrong. the crusades were more barbaric than most warfare that went on the time, because the motivation for the warfare was different (ideological/religious vs territorial). most warfare during the middle ages was a very brief, if violent affair - neither side could absorb a high number of casualties because most of their army was composed of peasants, and most armies broke after the initial engagement. there was also little involvement of civilians, and most civilians didn't really care what abstract, foreign power they paid taxes to.

Didn't have time to address this before, but I disagree. I.e. "No, Teger is wrong" (Looks like this thread is going in the right direction again). I'm not sure where you're getting this from, I think you may be applying a general truth for certain countries and time frames to all non-Crusade wars and all the Crusades. I also think you're not accounting for the very long period of time over which the Crusades occurred. Finally, I think you're disregarding that most wars, the Crusades included, had a mix of both ideological and territorial motivations.

Wars contemporaneous to the Crusades include:
1066–1088 Norman conquest of England - one battle in this had a 92% fatality rate, not noted as particularly exceptional by contemporary historians.
1109 Battle of Głogów - the beseigers chained children hostages to their seige engines as they advanced towards the city
1223–1241 Mongol invasion of Europe - hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of civilians murdered.
1223–1480 Tatar raids in Russia - ditto.
1296–1357 Wars of Scottish Independence - very high fatality rates, antisemites in blue facepaint having their genitals cut off.
1326–1332 Polish–Teutonic War
1337–1453 Hundred Years' War - admittedly, the standard of conduct you describe is very apt here. Mostly a territorial war (at its root), relatively low fatality rates
1340–1392 Galicia–Volhynia Wars
1340–1396 Bulgarian–Ottoman Wars - entire provinces of Bulgaria were depopulated. Heavy religious component.
1366–1526 Ottoman–Hungarian Wars - massive slaughters. 14,000 Hungarian dead in one battle alone.

I'd do more, but I'm not all that concerned about this issue.
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