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List of Bare Necessities - Page 8

post #106 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by emptym View Post

It's hard to define what exactly is a blazer. But the fabric type and pocket configuration have little if anything to do with it. Metal buttons are the most significant factor.

From my understanding, the patch pockets come from preppy east coast yacht club traditions. This blurb says that blazers usually have patch pockets and non-suiting fabric. They create a casual appearance

http://www.valetmag.com/ask-valet/style/2011/sport-coat-and-blazer-differences-030211.php

It also mentions that metal buttons are common, but I've seen patch pocket jackets without the gold buttons referred to as blazers. (Vox, Manton)

I personally think gold buttons are tacky. A bit "security guard-ish"
post #107 of 153
Actually, emptym is right. The blazer is mostly defined by its metal buttons. Esquire Encyclopedia of Men's Fashion defines it as: "A single- or double breasted sports jacket with metal buttons, in dark blue, another solid color, or in stripes." Fairchild's Encyclopedia of Menswear says it "most often describes a jacket that is navy blue with brass or gold buttons." Roetzel has this as his first definition: "A dark blue double-breasted jacket with two side vents and gilded brass buttons." The second definition says "A single-breasted club jacket, usually with sewn pockets and brass buttons."

Valet is a nice website, but it's not a reliable source for historical information.

Anyway, unbelragazzo already defined it for us for the purposes of this thread.
post #108 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrd617 View Post

From my understanding, the patch pockets come from preppy east coast yacht club traditions. This blurb says that blazers usually have patch pockets and non-suiting fabric. They create a casual appearance
http://www.valetmag.com/ask-valet/style/2011/sport-coat-and-blazer-differences-030211.php
It also mentions that metal buttons are common, but I've seen patch pocket jackets without the gold buttons referred to as blazers. (Vox, Manton)
I personally think gold buttons are tacky. A bit "security guard-ish"
I don't know where patch pockets originated, but I believe they predate East Coast yacht clubs. Still, they are fairly preppy, imo. Blazers don't "usually" have patch pockets, but they often do. So in that, I disagree with that "blurb." I agree with it insofar as it says a blazer is made of fabric that is different from the pants. But I think you're incorrect in interpreting the "blurb" as stating that blazers are not made from suit fabric. ("Suiting" means "suit fabric" so no need to say "suiting fabric" or "non-suiting fabric.") Blazers can be made in a plain worsted fabric, in hopsack, twill, fresco, and flannel, for example -- all of which could also be used for suits. But again, I agree that patch pockets are more casual than other types of pockets. And this is what makes them good for blazers or any other sport coat.

Manton used the term "blazer" loosely in his blazer suit. Take a look at his thread, particularly posts 47 and 60:
http://www.styleforum.net/t/71198/the-amazing-blazer-suit/0_30

Vox's SuissArmySuit does not have patch pockets or non-suit fabric. It is a suit and what makes it able to convert into a blazer is precisely the addition of metal buttons:
http://www.styleforum.net/t/111076/the-swissarmysuit-a-sartorial-strip-tease/150_30#post_1917006
post #109 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

Esquire Encyclopedia... Fairchild's Encyclopedia

Can't argue with these. I am often the one breaking out the OED.

If we're defining a "blazer" as a navy jacket with gold buttons, I'd say that "blazers" are non essential. Buttons are all personal preference. Horn and grey metal and even MOP look good. Any non suiting navy jacket will work. Bonus points for patch pockets.
post #110 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

I'd consider a jacket like this fully in compliance with my list (ignore high price tag and fancy brand, this is just to show you what I mean):
http://www.mrporter.com/product/176188
Just so we don't get caught up on the definition of "blazer" - what I mean is some jacket in navy that doesn't look like a suit jacket. It has rougher texture and/or non-navy buttons and/or patch pockets.

I think we're agreeing more than we realize

Yeah, we are.

'twas semantics after all.
post #111 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by emptym View Post

Vox's SuissArmySuit does not have patch pockets or non-suit fabric.

I usually think of worsted wool when I think of suiting. I see a lot of people comment here that they avoid worsted wool sportcoats because they end up looking like ophaned suit jackets.

I've never owned anything in fresco, but it strikes me as a less formal fabric? It looks to have a coarser texture from the open weave.
post #112 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbrown View Post

Forget jackets - what about socks?

Navy socks are included in the OP

I know. smile.gif I was making the point to Hendrix that if we want to go down the road of saying "odd jacket not required" then maybe dress socks aren't required either, which seems like a silly result.

I'm totally with you on the navy jacket. I can't believe there has been so much discussion over it.

And by the way, my navy jacket has brass buttons. Suck it, haters. wink.gif
post #113 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrd617 View Post


I personally think gold buttons are tacky. A bit "security guard-ish"

Unless you are on a boat, I'd have to agree.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbrown View Post

And by the way, my navy jacket has brass buttons. Suck it, haters. wink.gif

Isn't that the job of your first mate? mwink[1].gif

post #114 of 153
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor Elfo View Post

Honestly, I am not sure if discussing the habits of the medium class (socio-economic wise) is the point of the thread, but it demonstrates the problem with the objective of this thread: a list of bare necessities when there is no standard bare necessities.
We could develop some options within the expected formal range of a medium class citizen. What do you think?

I could, for example, live with this for my bare necessities: navy safari jacket, medium gray trousers, light blue "casual" shirt, navy polo, brown suede loafers. And I would be the dressed up guy.

This isn't bare necessities to clothe yourself in your style though. It's bare necessities to meet every dress code you face (although we're not using dress code in the strict sense all the time). For your concept, see pocketsquareguy's thread on 10 Essentials - that's the concept you're going after.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

Actually, I would sooner propose a nice pair of khaki chinos before I'd recommend a navy sport coat. Because you can't always wear jeans. There are very few men in America who couldn't be well served by having a go-to pair of nice chinos and some kind of light blue button-up shirt. It's very casual, but also very useful. And importantly: this would be true for men of almost any background.

I've got either dress chinos or mid-grey trousers on the list, so I think this is already covered. The mid-grey trousers will seem a little dressier than the chinos, but if you have them instead of the chinos, then I think you've still got all the same situations covered. And in this case, you can wear your white button-up just as easily as the light blue. I agree the blue is usually better, but a white OCBD isn't out of place there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emptym View Post

Yes. I took you to be using "blazer" loosely in the general sense of odd jacket/sport coat.
Metal buttons have a stigma to them now, so many people who would have gotten a blazer w/ metal buttons 10-20 yrs ago opt instead for a horn, bone, plastic, etc. But to distinguish this jacket from a suit coat, they add less formal details, such as rougher fabric or patch pockets. Such details don't make the jacket a blazer, but they do make it more identifiable as an odd jacket/sport coat.

I think the word "blazer" has now morphed into meaning a wider class of jackets. It had a historical meaning that's different, but now few enough people are aware of that definition and it is used to refer to enough other things, that the meaning has changed. Check out what's in Mr Porter's 'blazer' category. Or, for that matter, Huntsman:

http://www.h-huntsman.com/bespoke-page4/HS484951
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbrown View Post

I know. smile.gif I was making the point to Hendrix that if we want to go down the road of saying "odd jacket not required" then maybe dress socks aren't required either, which seems like a silly result.
I'm totally with you on the navy jacket. I can't believe there has been so much discussion over it.
And by the way, my navy jacket has brass buttons. Suck it, haters. wink.gif

Ah, gotcha - sorry, was reading too fast and was too drunk last night. I got some brass buttons too (although this is a lot diff from the traditional BB blazer):



I think I may swap out for some MoP next spring/summer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claghorn View Post

Isn't that the job of your first mate? mwink%5B1%5D.gif

rotflmao.gif
post #115 of 153
First post in a very long time, and I know there is a major bias toward tailored items on the forum, but (assuming we can agree that the suit is an absolute necessity) what it...

the space in the wardrobe we are debating was held not by a tailored piece at all, but by a shawl collar cardigan.

Obviously I do enjoy dressing up and feel I am not completely dressed without something over my shirt. In most of the instances we are discussing most people will perceive tailored clothing as too 'dressed up'. While the the styleforum attitude skews toward f@!k 'em, the man who would need the type of advice being given in this thread most likely does not want that type of attention.

Mine are heavy gauge wool-cashmere cable knits in navy and grey (though I am looking for something a bit less substantial for warmer weather). I have often paired them with flannels, cords, tweeds, and cavalry twills, a solid color OCBD, and a tie for the types of occasions being debated here. Obviously they can also be worn with a solid tee, raw denim jeans, and boots for a tasteful casual look.
post #116 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodlife View Post

First post in a very long time, and I know there is a major bias toward tailored items on the forum, but (assuming we can agree that the suit is an absolute necessity) what it...
the space in the wardrobe we are debating was held not by a tailored piece at all, but by a shawl collar cardigan.
Obviously I do enjoy dressing up and feel I am not completely dressed without something over my shirt. In most of the instances we are discussing most people will perceive tailored clothing as too 'dressed up'. While the the styleforum attitude skews toward f@!k 'em, the man who would need the type of advice being given in this thread most likely does not want that type of attention.
Mine are heavy gauge wool-cashmere cable knits in navy and grey (though I am looking for something a bit less substantial for warmer weather). I have often paired them with flannels, cords, tweeds, and cavalry twills, a solid color OCBD, and a tie for the types of occasions being debated here. Obviously they can also be worn with a solid tee, raw denim jeans, and boots for a tasteful casual look.


I'm so heavily biased towards shawl collared cardigans I can't even comment.

 

But managing to overcome my bias, I'd have to say that...uch....fuck it. I agree.

I mean I don't. I know the blazer/odd jacket is more "essential"...but my heart says cardigan. My heart is wrong, but damn it, it feels so right.

post #117 of 153
Thread Starter 
Ok so what do you do if you have a navy SC - appropriate event in the summer? Same q goes for those arguing for tweed.
post #118 of 153
Personally I also have a navy blazer, but as I mentioned I'm also looking for something less substantial. I'll eventually end up with some for shoulder season, and one or two for summer.

I would think a linen or silk/cotton cardigan would wear at least as cooly as a year-round worsted blazer. Additionally knits are typically cheaper then tailored clothing at every price point, so our subject could get two or even three season specific cardigans at about the same price as one year-round blazer. It is also likely this purchase would be met with less resistance because of the sweaters versatility transitioning into the casual wardrobe.
post #119 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

Ok so what do you do if you have a navy SC - appropriate event in the summer? Same q goes for those arguing for tweed.


Excellent point. Thank you. The cognitive dissonance was really bothering me.
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodlife View Post

I would think a linen or silk/cotton cardigan would wear at least as cooly as a year-round worsted blazer.

But I think only a wool cardigan would have the necessary gravitas to replace the jacket. I can't imagine wearing a cotton cardigan in the stead of a blazer.

post #120 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrd617 View Post
 
Some people on SF just have to get their comment in facepalm.gif

 

Come on now, you should know I am not that kind of poster. The opposite in fact. And I wasn't disagreeing about the usefulness of your pictures or your excellent thread - this was not any kind of picky attack on you (and you are perhaps reacting too defensively). However, perhaps I should have explained. A blazer is a specific kind of jacket - and people out there have an image of a 'blazer' associated with brass buttons, yacht clubs and the like -  for the person in the street out there, for whom the list in the OP is intended, they won't have the basic understanding of clothing that allows people here to make the kind of assumptions that those posting for 'us' do. So, I am not arguing for the sake of it, I am actually, in the spirit of the OP, considering the audience. I hope that helps.

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