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Tom Ford, Gucci suits made by Zegna? - Page 2

post #16 of 39
good info as always from klobber. how goes it, pal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMG1 View Post

So just to make sure, the difference is the workmanship as the linen couture jacket would still be considered superior although cashmere is the nicer fabric.

as far as i know, the main difference in the couture items would be,

- more hand finishing. tho i have heard its not all that much. their website however, implies it is a lot. go figure.

- as well, i understand the fabrics they use for couture are a step above. a cashmere mainline SC, and a cashmere couture SC, for example, would not be made from the same roll. within fabrics there are varying levels of better grades

- some degree of better construction, not sure how true that is, as i understand mainline zegna is made pretty darn well. i have a decent amount of mainline zegna items, and they are all fantastically made.

- other odds and ends, like buttons, and button hole shapes, just small finishing items to differentiate the line.
post #17 of 39
as to your OP, it is important to remember, that zegna started as a fabric manufacturer, not a finished garment seller. it was only later that they started to make their own finished garments.

they still sell a ton of fabric, as you will see the little "zegan fabric" on the tags of all kinds of different suits. some are not made particularly well at all, but they bought the fabric from zegna. a mistake many first time buyers make, thinking they got a zegna at a great price.

as such, they have a very large operation, with complete vertical and horizontal abilities. sourcing the fabrics, creating the rolls, the ability to produce many finished garments. the ability to make the finished garments in many varying levels of quality and workmanship. the ability to make large quantities of garments to the exact specifications a designer may want....

having all that in place is no small feat, and something many brands simply can not do, and certainly not at a price point that is worthwhile for them. hence, they just go to zegna, strike a deal, and have zegna make them exactly what they need. and the majority of people out there have no idea.

win win for everybody.
post #18 of 39
They use Trofeo fabric in mainline. They use basic wool in couture. By Zegna's own standards the Trofeo fabric is going to be better then the non.

You can't assume the fabric in couture is better.
post #19 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicola View Post

They use Trofeo fabric in mainline. They use basic wool in couture. By Zegna's own standards the Trofeo fabric is going to be better then the non.
You can't assume the fabric in couture is better.

i do not think they they always use trofeo fabric in mainline, i am actually pretty sure it is only used in some items. i know of the stuff i have only some is labeled trofeo. when i did su misura there were a bunch of fabric options, not all were trofeo, and it was all mainline.

but yes, i am sure in some cases you are correct, there are mainline items with better fabric then some couture items. one cant assume anything just from the label. nor should one ever do that. not a good idea.

then again, i am far from an expert on zegna couture, as i dont have a lot of couture items. just have done a lot of reading and conversing about it. and even the mainline i may know some, but not as much as many others.
post #20 of 39
Thread Starter 
Thanks in stitches that is totally clear now.
post #21 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

i do not think they they always use trofeo fabric in mainline, i am actually pretty sure it is only used in some items. .

That's correct.
post #22 of 39

When I asked the people at a Zegna store if they could make me a MTM suit with Tom Ford styling (which I knew they theoretically could), they were afraid they couldn't. When I asked if they could make me a suit with TF fabric at least, they were afraid they couldn't either.

post #23 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stugotes View Post

When I asked the people at a Zegna store if they could make me a MTM suit with Tom Ford styling (which I knew they theoretically could), they were afraid they couldn't. When I asked if they could make me a suit with TF fabric at least, they were afraid they couldn't either.

The patterns and fabrics are exclusive to certain brands. Theoretically you could walk in to Zegna and ask for a MTM wide lapel single breasted 3 piece suit but it won't have certain things like the A&S inspired shoulder seam and the milanese lapel button hole, and you could probably get fabrics similar to what TF uses but not the exact one.
post #24 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff13007 View Post


The patterns and fabrics are exclusive to certain brands. Theoretically you could walk in to Zegna and ask for a MTM wide lapel single breasted 3 piece suit but it won't have certain things like the A&S inspired shoulder seam and the milanese lapel button hole, and you could probably get fabrics similar to what TF uses but not the exact one.

 

Yep, that was my point. A lot of characteristics are exclusive to TF and finding a substitute can be hard.

post #25 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

as to your OP, it is important to remember, that zegna started as a fabric manufacturer, not a finished garment seller. it was only later that they started to make their own finished garments.
they still sell a ton of fabric, as you will see the little "zegan fabric" on the tags of all kinds of different suits. some are not made particularly well at all, but they bought the fabric from zegna. a mistake many first time buyers make, thinking they got a zegna at a great price.
as such, they have a very large operation, with complete vertical and horizontal abilities. sourcing the fabrics, creating the rolls, the ability to produce many finished garments. the ability to make the finished garments in many varying levels of quality and workmanship. the ability to make large quantities of garments to the exact specifications a designer may want....
having all that in place is no small feat, and something many brands simply can not do, and certainly not at a price point that is worthwhile for them. hence, they just go to zegna, strike a deal, and have zegna make them exactly what they need. and the majority of people out there have no idea.
win win for everybody.

Are you sure you're not thinking of Loro Piana? Zegna has always been a big producer of suits whereas Loro Piana was (and still remains) a large textile manufacturer.
post #26 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by HansderHund View Post


Are you sure you're not thinking of Loro Piana? Zegna has always been a big producer of suits whereas Loro Piana was (and still remains) a large textile manufacturer.

 

No, Zegna was founded in 1910 as a textile operation, but only started to make clothing in the late 60s.

 

They still are a big player in textiles.

post #27 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMG1 View Post

Thanks in stitches that is totally clear now.

my pleasure! cheers.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stugotes View Post

When I asked the people at a Zegna store if they could make me a MTM suit with Tom Ford styling (which I knew they theoretically could), they were afraid they couldn't. When I asked if they could make me a suit with TF fabric at least, they were afraid they couldn't either.

i wonder if there are contractual issues preventing them from saying that they can make you TF style stuff? as well, whatever fabrics they designate for TF stuff, i am sure for all kinds of proprietary reasons, they can not use for themselves. TF undoubtedly wants their stuff separate, and distinguishable from the zegna line.

btw, your username is awesome. icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by HansderHund View Post

Are you sure you're not thinking of Loro Piana? Zegna has always been a big producer of suits whereas Loro Piana was (and still remains) a large textile manufacturer.

in short, yup, i am sure. stugotes has the details above.

as a matter of fact, they even present yearly awards for top fabrics that have been sourced around the world each year.

also, LP has also ventured into finished garments, too. even have their own boutiques.
post #28 of 39
St. Andrews makes LP suits, correct?
post #29 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

i wonder if there are contractual issues preventing them from saying that they can make you TF style stuff? as well, whatever fabrics they designate for TF stuff, i am sure for all kinds of proprietary reasons, they can not use for themselves. TF undoubtedly wants their stuff separate, and distinguishable from the zegna line.
 

 

Yes, that's what I was thinking, too. Walking into a TF boutique and ordering a MTM suit should trigger an order in the same Couture factory that would receive an order from a Zegna store.

 

Quote:
btw, your username is awesome. icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

 

Hah, thanks! I obviously misspelled it upon registering, though facepalm.gif

post #30 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stugotes View Post

Yes, that's what I was thinking, too. Walking into a TF boutique and ordering a MTM suit should trigger an order in the same Couture factory that would receive an order from a Zegna store.

Not quite the same as all mainline Zegna as some of it(mainline zegna) is made in spain as well. When i did mine at TF the order was sent to the factory on the border of Italy and Switzerland, depending on which side it is made determines the "made in italy" or "made in switzerland" label on the suit. You can however request that it be made on the Italian side of the factory if you are picky, but i really didn't care since its the same factory and the same people just across the borderline.

Edit: i just reread your post and realized we were saying the exact same thing. Even though its the "same standard" as Zegna Couture I'm not sure if its the same factory, as i have yet to see a Zegna Couture with a "Made in switzerland" tag, unless the TF section is the only one crossing the border. Also Zegna couture has handmade buttonholes but TF does not
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