Originally Posted by dieworkwear
This is a really great discussion.
First, I guess Jesse and I are mostly doing tailored clothing + things you might wear with tailored clothing. So sportswear and streewear are out, though I don't know if designer tailored clothing remains (I haven't talked to Jesse about it). Given that, I think certain brands such as Filson and Nike are out, as are Bathing Ape and Stussy (a shame, but on the upside, it helps us narrow this list down a bit).
Bummer, because really, I think that the influence that Nike has had is undeniable. Filson, Pendleton, those are more debatable. And I really think that Stussy has had as much influence on how men dress today than any number of fancy names.
I'm then curious about a few things. First, what was your reason for The GAP? The most memorable thing I can think of is the khakis campaign and its role as a kind of mass-outiftter (on three different levels). If we're taking that, I wonder if old mass outfitters such as Burton should be included, given our "tailored wear" focus. Perhaps Burton might represent a kind of "dark suits for the every day man" age in Britain? And that makes it "great?" Don't know if I'm stretching here.
Yeah, it's role as a mass outfitter and it's incredible marketing. It achieved penetration the way brands had not even though possible before them.
I'm also curious about your inclusion of Hanes. No idea who is "greater" - them or Fruit of a Loom.
Two words: white tee.
As for John Paul Gaultier, are we talking about his suits with exaggerated proportions? Crazy wide, padded shoulders with tight bodies? Did that have an impact outside of the designer world? Not that his work is discounted because it's just in the designer world, but I thought I'd ask. Could one say that his work was a bridge between the deconstructed Armanis in the 80s and the Lang and Prada minimalism in the 90s? I feel like those three had a bigger impact on the commercial world, for whatever that's worth.
For his flirtations with skirts. Though he failed, he set the precedent for designers after him to play with gender. Others during the same period promoted the idea, but he was best known for this. I mean, does anyone remember that Armani actually tried this as well?
For Zegna, are you suggesting them for their vertically integrated business model? Essentially going from cloth to suit manufacturing? Do you know if they were one of the first to do that? I think Cerruti does too, no?
Yes, and they were instrumental in bringing "conservative" Italian men's fashion to North America. Cerruti does it too, and iirc, it started earlier than Zegna, with Hitman, where Armani got his start. But it never got the penetration that Zegna had, and imo, success is an important criterion in this case.
Have a few more thoughts, but have to turn to some other work for now. I'm enjoying this discussion though.