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What are the greatest menswear brands of all time? - Page 25

post #361 of 500
Chungking Express is awesome. That's the film that got me into films.
post #362 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

i honestly think that whoever actually makes the #1 spot is meaningless, as there will never be consensus. and listing a #1 will only lead to whining. but maybe that is good press. wink.gif
i almost think there should be 5 groups of 10, each listed alphabetically.

 

There is a consensus, which is a majority of opinion or general agreement; it's Polo.

 

Although you will never make everyone happy, Polo will consistently be voted number one (or at least within the top three) most consistently.

 

The arguments within this thread for Polo are far more compelling than against.

 

For: 200 word argument

Against: They are teh devil -- Mcdonalds (for some reason)!!!

 

I mean honestly, how could an objective person not call Polo the greatest menswear brand of all time? For the billion reasons listed within this thread and because of the fact that no one even comes close based on the spectrum on consumers Ralph has reached over decades and the success he has seen overall, across the board. Sure, folks might "like" other brands more, but there is no one out there that can touch Ralph when taking all factors into account.

post #363 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie22 View Post

There is a consensus, which is a majority of opinion or general agreement; it's Polo.

Although you will never make everyone happy, Polo will consistently be voted number one (or at least within the top three) most consistently.

The arguments within this thread for Polo are far more compelling than against.

For: 200 word argument
Against: They are teh devil -- Mcdonalds (for some reason)!!!

I mean honestly, how could an objective person not call Polo the greatest menswear brand of all time? For the billion reasons listed within this thread and because of the fact that no one even comes close based on the spectrum on consumers Ralph has reached over decades and the success he has seen overall, across the board. Sure, folks might "like" other brands more, but there is no one out there that can touch Ralph when taking all factors into account.

How about we go to a neo-nazi convention and see what the concensus about blacks is?

Your argument boils down to this: RL is successful and has many lines so it is the best, the fact that the products themselves are derivative is irrelevent. Wonderful!
post #364 of 500
Sweet, now we can talk about RL for another 3 pages!!

An attempt to drive the conversation somewhere different: which brands do you think have changed the most over time, and which have stayed the most constant? For those that change the most, do we give them less credit for successfully creating a new trend if they have also unsuccessfully tried to create many other trends?
post #365 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post


How about we go to a neo-nazi convention and see what the concensus about blacks is?
Your argument boils down to this: RL is successful and has many lines so it is the best, the fact that the products themselves are derivative is irrelevent. Wonderful!

 

That was a piece of my overall position, in fact, you didn't even respond to my post(s).

 

Again with the race stuff, I still done get it. Your analogy, like the Mcdonald comparison, seems to make little sense.

 

I am not trying to be snarky.

post #366 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post


How about we go to a neo-nazi convention and see what the concensus about blacks is?
Your argument boils down to this: RL is successful and has many lines so it is the best, the fact that the products themselves are derivative is irrelevent. Wonderful!

 

So being "derivative" is a bad thing I take it?

 

 

 

 

Can anyone guess where this is going? (Click to show)

 

I guess some aspire to be rock stars while others aspire to be upper-class WASPs.

 

 

post #367 of 500
Serious but humble request - can people who want to either bash Fuuma's outfit or continue the is-RL-Messiah-or-AntiChrist discussion start a new thread on it? I don't think there's any more valuable discussion to be had that's relevant to this thread, and it would be a shame if this thread were derailed by it. Everyone agrees that RL should be on the list of greatest brands. And we're not trying to pick a number 1.
post #368 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

How about we go to a neo-nazi convention and see what the concensus about blacks is?
Your argument boils down to this: RL is successful and has many lines so it is the best, the fact that the products themselves are derivative is irrelevent. Wonderful!

i will go only if you come with me.

whatever the numbers for or against may be, i dont think any real #1 can or should be crowned. i still think it should be broken down into lists of 5 or 10, alphabetically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

Serious but humble request - can people who want to either bash Fuuma's outfit or continue the is-RL-Messiah-or-AntiChrist discussion start a new thread on it? I don't think there's any more valuable discussion to be had that's relevant to this thread, and it would be a shame if this thread were derailed by it. Everyone agrees that RL should be on the list of greatest brands. And we're not trying to pick a number 1.

im down with this.
post #369 of 500
No inclusion of the Ura Hara brands/movement? Hiroshi Fujiwara (and those that came after such as Nigo) have been hugely influential in defining what we now know as "Streetwear", not to mention their success in brand management. Or is that a realm not included in this list?
post #370 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

Serious but humble request - can people who want to either bash Fuuma's outfit or continue the is-RL-Messiah-or-AntiChrist discussion start a new thread on it? I don't think there's any more valuable discussion to be had that's relevant to this thread, and it would be a shame if this thread were derailed by it. Everyone agrees that RL should be on the list of greatest brands. And we're not trying to pick a number 1.

BIG plus one. And, I agree, I have no idea where suddenly this went from "50 greatest" to a ranking from 50 down to 1.
It's a list of the FIFTY greatest, not just one.

In my (admittedly) too-long tenure on menswear fora, I've noticed a pattern and life to threads. They start off slow sometimes, with a few contributions. Then, somewhere about post 30, some good ideas are out there and things heat up. 30 up to 200 or so, and things are really rolling. You just can't believe how great things are. 250 you hit a slump, and you think the thread is gone. 300 and then a surprise addition takes you up to 350.

IN general, though, after 350 (or a requisite period of time), it's just dead. The real information has been exhausted, and things start getting confused. The thread becomes too long for newcomers to read appropriately, so they just "add" a post on, probably the content of which has either been covered before or is completely irrelevant/inappropriate to the actual thread. Those who followed the thread closely get cranky, and then along with that crankiness you get some sudden completely pointless posts from those who just want to be a part of the "big" thread. You also get some trolls who are attracted by the "gravity" of a big discussion in the open forum.

As such, the thread often goes to 700 or more, but really you could have stopped well before 300 and been pretty fine with the results. Worst of all, the initial set of core posters who made the thread interesting are so burned out with the inanity that has developed that they grow to hate the thread and never want to see it again.

It's like watching a musician who had one good song get signed to a 10 record deal. Albums 2 or maybe 3 are coasting on cut material from the first album, but by album 9, it's just gotten sad and you're angry and sorry you kept listening. wink.gif
post #371 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

Serious but humble request - can people who want to either bash Fuuma's outfit or continue the is-RL-Messiah-or-AntiChrist discussion start a new thread on it? I don't think there's any more valuable discussion to be had that's relevant to this thread, and it would be a shame if this thread were derailed by it. Everyone agrees that RL should be on the list of greatest brands. And we're not trying to pick a number 1.

I think you'll find that I did not advocate nor decry RL's position on "the list," I've not advocated for or against any brand in any of my posts on this thread, actually, merely asked questions of the criteria and foundation for inclusion. I am also not criticizing Fuuma's outfit. What I am doing is challenging the logic of his argument while also employing sarcasm regarding his anti-semitic remarks made earlier. 

I dont wish to enrage anyone, but I do find it odd that anti-semitism does appear to be tolerated and not considered a thread-derail, whereas challenging the logic of someone's argument is apparently verboten. Referring to RLs surname in the context it was; suggesting that he wishes he weren't Jewish; and even chastizing him for changing his name, whenever it was done, as cowardly shows an utter lack of understanding of the overt anti-semitism that existed in this country not so long ago and certainly does not have a place in the discussion about the man, his company, or his products.

post #372 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaJen View Post

I think you'll find that I did not advocate nor decry RL's position on "the list," I've not advocated for or against any brand in any of my posts on this thread, actually, merely asked questions of the criteria and foundation for inclusion. I am also not criticizing Fuuma's outfit. What I am doing is challenging the logic of his argument while also employing sarcasm regarding his anti-semitic remarks made earlier. 
I dont wish to enrage anyone, but I do find it odd that anti-semitism does appear to be tolerated and not considered a thread-derail, whereas challenging the logic of someone's argument is apparently verboten. Referring to RLs surname in the context it was; suggesting that he wishes he weren't Jewish; and even chastizing him for changing his name, whenever it was done, as cowardly shows an utter lack of understanding of the overt anti-semitism that existed in this country not so long ago and certainly does not have a place in the discussion about the man, his company, or his products.

I don't think you're aware of this as it is old forum history but styleforum was started in 2002 as a splinter of the stormfront fashion section. Site managers LAGuy (formerly known as AryanGuy) and J (formerly known as JewsRBad) disagreed with stormfront moderator aryanfist666 over the appropriate styling of jackboots and SS insignias and left to create this place. Antisemitism is a big part of our DNA and we'd like you to have some respect for this proud heritage. Rahowa!
post #373 of 500
^Didn't know that, Fuuma.

I thought SF started during the "Great Schism of 2002" on ALVA (Authentic Louis Vuitton Addicts), when Nancy, still high off her purchase of a Burberry check scarf, commented snarkily to Tamela, the wife of a record executive, that her Louboutin pumps made her ass look big. Oh, many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!
post #374 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

I don't think you're aware of this as it is old forum history but styleforum was started in 2002 as a splinter of the stormfront fashion section. Site managers LAGuy (formerly known as AryanGuy) and J (formerly known as JewsRBad) disagreed with stormfront moderator aryanfist666 over the appropriate styling of jackboots and SS insignias and left to create this place. Antisemitism is a big part of our DNA and we'd like you to have some respect for this proud heritage. Rahowa!

not sure if srs.

also, i am frown.gif that you have ignored me in this thread.

rach - excellent summation of thread flow dynamics. is that a science you teach?
post #375 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post


rach - excellent summation of thread flow dynamics. is that a science you teach?

Now THAT would be a fun class. smile.gif Sorry for the wall of text, but I enjoy discourse analysis and social dynamics:

I forgot to add that the only time I've really seen a single "topic" thread (meaning not one like WAYWT or something that is regularly updated with new material), go 700-800+ posts is when a flame war develops.

With almost no exception, I don't think a single-topic thread can be informative past 300 posts. Beyond sheer material exhaustion is also a paradox: any single topic on a public "general interest" forum won't have enough "expert" knowledge to keep it going without tiresome repetition. Conversely, assuming such experts all taking part in the same thread, it becomes hard to follow.

Looking at the science of social networks... my guess why this is the case is even though we are online, I don't think we can go beyond the cognitive social limits evolution has given us; I don't think we can really pay attention to 40 people all sharing a lot of information at once. At best, we focus on 4-5 and skim the rest (similar to what we'd do in a large room... focus on a few and mostly ignore the others). We simply aren't equipped to handle more than that, whether online or IRL. On any given SF thread, there are probably not more than 4-5 informative posters worth listening to, so in general we don't exceed those limits. As well, those 4-5 generally are given an obvious leeway/deference by others, so that even when there are 50 or more on a thread, the "leaders" (like any social group) quickly become obvious.

*This is perhaps one problem with CE; everybody thinks they are the leader on a thread and so with 30 people, 29 of them all think they are the only one contributing information (so it becomes an obnoxious, almost unreadable echo-chamber)*

Having been on many fora since 2000 or so... IMHO what is required to keep a forum going is not what you'd expect; it is this wide range of non-expert poster that makes it fun. I've also been on those "private" forums made up of only experts, and it generally burns out quickly with a lot of catty bitching. So, you really can't have your cake and eat it, too.

Even then, there is a brief lifespan to a topical thread, with peak fitness at 30-100 posts. Less than that, it's finding its legs... more than that and the real meat has been shared, after which the vultures swoop in.

SF is sort of like the RL of menswear fora; somehow it hasn't diluted its "brand" even given a number of different quality levels (after all, for every Manton/Purple Label there is a mensimageconsultant/lauren Ralph lauren.)
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