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What are the greatest menswear brands of all time? - Page 20

post #286 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

I was trying to remove $$$ and financial success from the equation and look at the actuel output, which is entirely devoid of value as far as design is concerned just like McD is a $$$ killer-megahouse entirely devoid of value as far as the culinary arts are concerned. Once again I would include RL in the top50 (well suggest it to the OP, I wouldn't in mine just like I would never buy or wear something RL), just saying it speaks a lot to what we value that something so bad can be considered great just because it made a lot of $ to a working class Jew that wanted to become an upper-class WASP. Now I understand that since RL covers the bro to post-bro segment it is well liked by MC people but this just speaks to the mediocrity of most of the posters here.

I don't see why we have to denigrate the brand because it wasn't started by an upper-class Christian. Apart from the fact that it makes a lot of money, as has been mentioned many times in this thread so far, the fact that RL is able to succeed at making items at many different price points is a significant accomplishment, and a task at which many other designers have failed. To be clear, I have no particular stake in RL as a brand. I own none of their clothes. But neither do I think that what they make is generally terrible.

But it sounds like we are in agreement that it should be included on a list of top 50 menswear brands, so...there may be no point in discussing further.
post #287 of 500
fuuma, curious about your list, can you give us one?
post #288 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post


I was trying to remove $$$ and financial success from the equation and look at the actuel output, which is entirely devoid of value as far as design is concerned just like McD is a $$$ killer-megahouse entirely devoid of value as far as the culinary arts are concerned. Once again I would include RL in the top50 (well suggest it to the OP, I wouldn't in mine just like I would never buy or wear something RL), just saying it speaks a lot to what we value that something so bad can be considered great just because it made a lot of $ to a working class Jew that wanted to become an upper-class WASP. Now I understand that since RL covers the bro to post-bro segment it is well liked by MC people but this just speaks to the mediocrity of most of the posters here.

Why would you remove money and financial success when talking about the greatest menswear brands of all time, as those two factors are directly tied to the output of the product. We're not talking about the best designers of all time, we're talking about the best menswear brands of all time, which transcends your hyper focus on artistic contributions or actual innovative design(s). Those, factors, while important, are only a small piece of the equation.

 

I also don't understand your comparison to Mcdonald's.  Polo has effectively reached every faucet of the menswear consumer across the entire brand spectrum, and done so effectively for decades. The actual output of Mcdonald is, for the most part, unhealthy fast food. Polo puts out a giant portfolio of products that in many cases are tops within their categories. For your comparison to be accurate, Mcdonald's would have to own reaturants within every part of the culinary space, enjoying massive success within every channel. 

 

You said polo is "so bad". Why?  I'd venture to say many of his products are tops in their class,especially the RLPL stuff.

 

Lastly, what does Ralph being a Jew who saw success have to do with anything?

 

I have identified two themes:

 

1.) You seem to be against anything perceived as "mainstream" or beyond what is perceived as "obscure"

2.) You seem to dislike Jews (I myself and not a Jew, I do, however, have somewhat of a Jew fro)  teacha.gif


Edited by Frankie22 - 9/27/12 at 11:17am
post #289 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie22 View Post

Polo has effectively reached every faucet of the menswear consumer across the entire brand spectrum

I'm wondering how widespread the menswear-in-mensrooms phenomenon is outside of SF.
post #290 of 500
fell behind here. lots of great posts, points and discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rach2jlc View Post


As well, it's sort of interesting that nobody said, "ZOMG CRAZY!" when people called Gaultier's looks ridiculous. BUT, say RL isn't God Almighty, and people shit their pants.

i did not shit my pants. its was close, but i escaped clean.
Edited by in stitches - 9/27/12 at 9:30am
post #291 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

Including Ralph Lauren in a list of greatest menswear designers is like including McDonalds in a list of greatest restaurants; it is true according to the way market democracies value things but it tells us a lot about market democracies...

i think this is ridiculous. well, sort of. the title is brands, not designers, and in that sense, i think that your point is off. but fok already pointed that out.

secondly, weather or not he is/was a designer par excellence, he/his team has designed a lot of great stuff. it may may be derivative, it may not be what you like, but they have produced plenty of wonderful designs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

I was trying to remove $$$ and financial success from the equation and look at the actuel output, which is entirely devoid of value as far as design is concerned just like McD is a $$$ killer-megahouse entirely devoid of value as far as the culinary arts are concerned. Once again I would include RL in the top50 (well suggest it to the OP, I wouldn't in mine just like I would never buy or wear something RL), just saying it speaks a lot to what we value that something so bad can be considered great just because it made a lot of $ to a working class Jew that wanted to become an upper-class WASP. Now I understand that since RL covers the bro to post-bro segment it is well liked by MC people but this just speaks to the mediocrity of most of the posters here.

besides that fact that i find your verbiage to be disgustingly offensive and very presumptuous, whether or not you meant to be, i just dont see how you could say the RL output is entirely devoid of value. and the fact that you decidedly would not buy or wear their garments, is kind of absurd. if you saw an RL cardigan you thought looked great, you would never buy it just to prove your disdain for RL? really?

not to mention, your general denigration of the posters on this site was rather unnecessary.

i still dont see the McDs to RL comparison at all either. they are both cash cows that have mass appeal on a certain level, but for me that is about it. nor do i understand why you are so staunch in calling the brand "so bad." maybe i missed your post, but i have not seen a reason for your saying so. tbh, you almost come of as an artisan who hates something simply because it is hugely popular, as if its a requirement of your fashion mantra of some sort.
post #292 of 500
Uh oh - Fuuma broke rule number 1 - no Ralph bashing.
post #293 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ich_Dien View Post

Uh oh - Fuuma broke rule number 1 - no Ralph bashing.

i wouldnt say that. i dont mean to say that RL is perfect in every sense. there is room for critique. i enjoy some of their clothing, but not all of it, and rach and others have made some rather good points about the strengths and weaknesses of RL, of which their are both, no one is perfect.

i just dont get why fuuma feels they are SO horrible, nor why he had to resort to presumptions about religion and race, or to take snide shots at the forum members. as if to imply that it is a given that he is right, and the only reason anyone disagrees, is because they are mediocre at best. and had they had an ounce of fashion sense, they would immediately come to his conclusion.
post #294 of 500
I think a better comparison than McD is to say RL is to fashion what Eric Clapton is to music.
post #295 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

tbh, you almost come of as an artisan who hates something simply because it is hugely popular, as if its a requirement of your fashion mantra of some sort.

Bingo!
post #296 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

I think a better comparison than McD is to say RL is to fashion what Eric Clapton is to music.

i hear that, im just not sure there is really a comparison to RL from music or food. only because, for better or worse, RL is far broader than either of those, although, EC is closer.

sidebar - i think for the most part, the RL discussion has gone as far as it really can, and its mostly repetition at this point. there are people on all sides, unlikely that anyone is about to change their stance. i imagine the main reason he is getting so much press here, is because he is so visible, and he is a brand most people can talk about with some kind of knowledge. most people own his items, have seen many more of them, and have probably read about him/his brand at some point, and formed some kind of opinion on the matter.

if more people knew more about other brands, the way rack, dieworkwear, fok, fuuuma, and others do, there would likely be more discussion on those brands as well. i wish i did, anyways.
post #297 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

if more people knew more about other brands, the way rack, dieworkwear, fok, fuuuma, and others do, there would likely be more discussion on those brands as well. i wish i did, anyways.

Not me. Ralph fills the clothing needs I have very nicely. I don't need no Margelees or Ralf Simmons smile.gif
post #298 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NORE View Post

Not me. Ralph fills the clothing needs I have very nicely. I don't need no Margelees or Ralf Simmons smile.gif

lolz. that may be true, but it may be a nice piece of knowledge to have, if only as a talking point.
post #299 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

As I was getting dressed this morning I spotted an old $700 Prada shirt, you could get a suit for that price a few yrs ago + the thing is ludicrously kitsch, entering Versace territory (Gladiators fighting pattern on black cotton).

Picture definitely needed. I have not seen this. If you give me a picture of this, I will try to dig up this silk Etro shirt with black and purple paisley and ridiculous point collars - cut oversized (as silk satin shirts should be, clearly) and stick a picture of it up in this bitch.
post #300 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NORE View Post

Bingo!

That's actually an unfair characterization of Fuuma. He has pretty eclectic taste, ranging from Paul Harnden (whose aesthetic, incidentally, he understands more than most, who try to make him a hobo-ninja) to Engineered Garments (pretty ubiquitous at this point) to Margiela (seriously, it was sorta niche in 2001. In 2012, not so much.)
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