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Buying shoes for your arch size?

post #1 of 91
Thread Starter 

All,

 

I was at my local shoe retailer for the first time yesterday (private non-chain, good local people) and stepped into the Brannock device for the first time since being a child; I've always just done trial and error when buying shoes and landed on a size 8 (based on loose vs. tight, completely ignorant of arch measurements). After having read one of the threads here I was directed to how to use a Brannock device appropriately to determine arch length vs. foot length and wanted to see where I stood. Quick FYI, the Brannock statement indicates you should be for arch length if there's a discrepancy between the two. Results:

 

Left Foot

Length: 8

Arch: 9

Width: D

 

Right Foot

Length: 8 (just shy, a 7 3/4 if that were real)

Arch: 9 (and some change)

Width: D

 

What the...? I talked with the local lady and she said that indicates a higher arch, and while you should technically buy shoes for your arch size, there'd be no way a 9 would fit because of how loose it would be on the rest of the foot... Awesome.

 

So what's the best play when your arch is off that much from the suggested size for the rest of your foot? I got some insoles put into my 1000 mile boots, 2 pair of AEs, and 1 pair of C&Js, will that end up being sufficient to accommodate the higher arch? Any body that has experience with or faces this issue, I'm all ears. Thanks!

post #2 of 91

8 1/2 ?

post #3 of 91
There are three basic options:

Orthotics of some kind
Finding a last or shoe model that works for you
Custom shoes

Where are you? Do you have access to a place like Moulded Shoe in NYC or Boston Pedorthics?
post #4 of 91

Was the width the same when you measured your arch?  My feet measure between 11.5 and 12 length, with a D width, but my arches measure 13 with a C width.  

 

I have a bunch of 13C shoes that fit pretty well.  There is extra room in the toe, but it's not a problem.  I also have a  few pairs of 12D shoes that fit pretty well, too.  I think it's going to be a trial and error thing to find shoes that fit, but I'd double check your width for your arch length first.

post #5 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrizzleCizzle View Post

Quick FYI, the Brannock statement indicates you should be for arch length if there's a discrepancy between the two.

Last time I looked, the Brannock web page says you should try (or wear) shoes according to the arch lenght if it's larger than the foot length.

However, the first question is: What evidence do they have?
post #6 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claus View Post

Last time I looked, the Brannock web page says you should try (or wear) shoes according to the arch lenght if it's larger than the foot length.
However, the first question is: What evidence do they have?

This a good question, cause my arch length says I'm a 13 and my toe length says 11.5...

The chances of me actually preferring a size 13 dress shoe are 0. However, this is closer to my athletic shoe size (12.5-13).
post #7 of 91
i have been struggling with this for a year.

I have developed plantar fasciitis recently and im worried it is because of my shoe size im wearing.

Heel to toe- 10.5-11
Arch- 13

I currently wear a US 12 with plenty of room and a 13 just a lot of times feels huge [IMG]

ill attach a photo of my foot on a brannock so you guys can check if im measuring it right and a photo of where my toe ends in a size 13 shoe
post #8 of 91
Not subscribed to this thread but a few observations...

First, a Brannock device is only relatively accurate. And doubly so when interpreted by someone who is not a shoemaker or familiar with lasts. Beyond that there are lasts...that manufacturers use...that have been deliberately designed with a longer heel to ball measurement relative to the "stick" ( heel to toe). There is no real, unimpeachable, standard in the shoemaking world.

Secondly, ask yourself if you have ever really given a shoe that fits your arch a fair trial. Often you'll have to go narrower to get a fit but "heel to ball" joint is the most critical measurement, bar none, for long term foot health. How much distance, beyond your toes, is left inside the shoe is almost irrelevant. For many people with average feet, wearing extended toe shoes...as is all the rage and fashion currently...probably yields no more, or less, extra space than for folks with a long H-B.

Third, if the arch (H-B) isn't properly supported, it will tend to fall and distort over a span of years. Irreversibly.

FWIW...
post #9 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Not subscribed to this thread but a few observations...

First, a Brannock device is only relatively accurate. And doubly so when interpreted by someone who is not a shoemaker or familiar with lasts. Beyond that there are lasts...that manufacturers use...that have been deliberately designed with a longer heel to ball measurement relative to the "stick" ( heel to toe). There is no real, unimpeachable, standard in the shoemaking world.

Secondly, ask yourself if you have ever really given a shoe that fits your arch a fair trial. Often you'll have to go narrower to get a fit but "heel to ball" joint is the most critical measurement, bar none, for long term foot health. How much distance, beyond your toes, is left inside the shoe is almost irrelevant. For many people with average feet, wearing extended toe shoes...as is all the rage and fashion currently...probably yields no more, or less, extra space than for folks with a long H-B.

Third, if the arch (H-B) isn't properly supported, it will tend to fall and distort over a span of years. Irreversibly.

FWIW...



yeah but for me i wear a 13 it literally slips off no matter what its just too big
post #10 of 91
Arch fit is really secondary; it could affect the long term foot health but it's not going to cause any short term pain.

Whats the point of getting great arch fit when the toe box is too short or too long? Or there's not enough vamp space?

Toe box width/length and vanp space are way more important and affects directly the wearability of the shoes.
post #11 of 91
i personally now instaad of wearing a 13 (my heel to ball)
wear a 12 with orthotics so my arch can be supported
post #12 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

Arch fit is really secondary; it could affect the long term foot health but it's not going to cause any short term pain.

Whats the point of getting great arch fit when the toe box is too short or too long? Or there's not enough vamp space?

Toe box width/length and vanp space are way more important and affects directly the wearability of the shoes.

facepalm.gif

Words of wisdom from someone who has never made a shoe, never tried to fit a foot, and whose entire compass of knowledge about shoes is comprised of Maui-Wowie pipe dreams and reading posts on the Internet.

--
Edited by DWFII - 10/12/15 at 6:09am
post #13 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by giants4life17 View Post

yeah but for me i wear a 13 it literally slips off no matter what its just too big

Just a quick look at the photo above...of your foot in the Brannock...reveals that the joint slider is way off (in my opinion). This is why I said, "And doubly so when interpreted by someone who is not a shoemaker or familiar with lasts."

The arch length--technically the heel to ball measurement...is correctly taken at the center of the medial ball joint. There is a raised ridge on the device slider that begins at the point and is continued back to the foot side of the slider. That ridge should be aligned with the joint itself--where the first metatarsal head meets the first proximal phalange. And you will notice in the image below that the joint itself is not vertical. The ridge you see or feel on the dorsal surface of the foot is somewhat forward of the where the joint itself articulates relative to the plantar surface.

I hate Brannock devices...no one uses them correctly & they are easily misinterpreted.

In my cursory, not-there-in-person, working-from-a-photo, opinion, your H-B measurement is, at the very most, a 12 and more likely an 11.

Here's the photo:



edited for punctuation and clarity
Edited by DWFII - 10/12/15 at 6:17am
post #14 of 91
here it is a 12.5 is this more accurate?


i got measured at a running store and they said 13 thats why i was confused
post #15 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by giants4life17 View Post

here it is a 12.5 is this more accurate?

I don't think so. It's very hard to tell from a photo and now the slider is so close to the foot that the bone structure is hidden. Also your first toe is turning inward a bit and this could indicate that you have an incipient bunion and the concomitant calcium build up in the joint--which would distort the visual perception of the joint.

On this end, all I can do...all anyone can do...is guess.

I'd still say you were, at most, a 12 in the H-B. I think I see somewhat of a ridge on the top of the foot. But if you look at the illustration above, that ridge is a bit forward of the actual joint and again the joint slants backward.

Then too, the foot doesn't articulate at the top of the joint, nor need support on the dorsal surface. And the longitudinal arch terminates at the plantar aspect of the metatarsal. It's that whole structure--from the os calcis through the Tarsus Seven to the metatarsal heads--that needs to be supported.

And having said that, I've seen a lot of feet in my time and just from the photo, I don't really feel like you have short toes--which would have to be the case if you had a short stick and a long H-B.

If you can't afford to have a maker measure you up, or consult a podiatrist, my advice would be to favour the stick and maybe try an 11-1/2. I wouldn't fit you in a 13 and I doubt, if I had a chance to actually see your foot, I would even believe a 12.
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