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My First Indochino Suit - should I ask for remake? - Page 3

post #31 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reevolving View Post

...
You need to understand something about SF: Some people here don't actually dress up.
They are just internet people who never leave their basement ....

Another thing the OP may need to understand: some people here like to talk about themselves.
post #32 of 105
The most obvious issue is the sleeve pitch, which is hard to get right. Many customers are not aware that they hold their arms a little backwards.
In pattern making the reference point for a normal sleeve pitch is a point behind 1/3 to 1/2 of the front pocket opening, given that the jacket fits you reasonably well.
Based on personal experience, telling the manufacturers to lower the sleeve pitch often creates bigger problems than leaving it in it's original position.

Looking at your measurements, there isn't a big drop between chest and waist, and the 4" they added is pretty standard in MTM.
My advice would be to find an able alteration tailor and have the waist of the coat taken in on the side seams a bit (1 to 1,5" in total). That will help create a more tapered look.
Sleeves: Need to be rotated forward. Not an easy alteration (takes lot of skill and time) and therefore costly. While the sleeves are out, have the shoulders narrowed according to your taste.
Left sleeve needs to be a tad shorter.

Trousers: Length is obvious. Not sure about the waist, looks like the waist band is standing away a little in the back.
Judging by the deep folds in the seat area I guess the seat seam needs to be corrected. It's too high up, so all the cloth is sitting below the seat. I'd say that the front rise is fine, but the rear seat seam needs to be scooped out a bit, perhaps the waist band lowered in the back as well (to take out the extra length in the rear trousers).

Again, lots of work for an alteration tailor, plus he/ she needs to be very skilled and knowledgeable. If Indochino has an alteration (or remake) service, and you consider sending the suit back, do the following:
Pin away the excess cloth along the side seams, but make sure you don't create tension at the front button and create drags from there towards the back. Mark the amount you want the shoulders to be taken in, same with sleeve length (right one is ok).
Do mark the amount that the waistband needs to be tighter and pin away the excess cloth beneath the seat. Pin the hem to get the correct length.

BTW, many customers grab their coats at the centre front to show how large the coat is. It's only too large when you can do it without causing major distortion in other areas like back and seat (like you do).
Looking at the pictures I'd say that for an internet ordered suit it's not that bad. It's tough to get it right without having seen you.
post #33 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeDT View Post

lurker[1].gif
Could be a shill site with fake reviews. That appears to be just a link farm anyway. I see it's registered via an anonymous (we don't want you to find us) proxy, just like the indochino site, and most other online "bespoke tailors".

My blog is certainly not a fake. I'm registered with anonymous, because I'm hosted on blogger and it does that by default - not that I mind.
post #34 of 105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reevolving View Post

Photos can be very deceptive.
People here will tell you pants that are too tight to function in real are "baggy" b/c they see one crease in your photo
You need to understand something about SF: Some people here don't actually dress up.
They are just internet people who never leave their basement and do not own dress clothing.
They are comparing your photos to artificial fashion model fits
(where the pins would pop off if the model bent over or raised his arms, or sat down)
You are dressing in the real world. So, if it feels like it fits, go with it.
Why the hell are you standing on grocery bags? That is the question.

 

This is good insight.  I do think there are a lot of people with way more experience than myself who can steer me in the right direction.  The suit felt slightly too baggy, not as much as I think I initially thought.

 

I think the shoulder was my biggest issue, and my tailor told me there is no easy way to shave off an inch off the shoulder without a lot of work.

 

I'm not looking for an tight fit, just a fit that allows me to move around but also so I don't look like a kid in adult clothing.

 

My wife's really particular about keeping the carpet clean, and I still need more of her measuring help on the remake, so better keep her happy.

 

You are obviously very experienced in SF and men's style, and I thought your comments on my pants are right on, I'm trying to figure out what to do to address them.

post #35 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirtmaven View Post

hence the problem with self measurements by people with no experience.
the TaT measurement chart makes no sense to someone who actually has taken suit measurments.
i have not looked at the Indochino method

+100000000000000000000000000
post #36 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirtmaven View Post

Why the hell are you standing on grocery bags? That is the question.
Because his wife spent the money on new white carpeting.
normally she makes him take off his shoes before he steps into that room.
remember, this is the woman who mis-measured him
And if he had dirtied that new carpet, she would cut off his clothing budget.
Now if they had spent less money on the carpet, he could have gone to a store that would have taken proper
measurements and made a suit that fit.
But he thinks His wife took proper measurements, indochino made the mistakes.

rotflmao.gif
post #37 of 105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tailorgod View Post

The most obvious issue is the sleeve pitch, which is hard to get right. Many customers are not aware that they hold their arms a little backwards.
In pattern making the reference point for a normal sleeve pitch is a point behind 1/3 to 1/2 of the front pocket opening, given that the jacket fits you reasonably well.
Based on personal experience, telling the manufacturers to lower the sleeve pitch often creates bigger problems than leaving it in it's original position.
Looking at your measurements, there isn't a big drop between chest and waist, and the 4" they added is pretty standard in MTM.
My advice would be to find an able alteration tailor and have the waist of the coat taken in on the side seams a bit (1 to 1,5" in total). That will help create a more tapered look.
Sleeves: Need to be rotated forward. Not an easy alteration (takes lot of skill and time) and therefore costly. While the sleeves are out, have the shoulders narrowed according to your taste.
Left sleeve needs to be a tad shorter.
Trousers: Length is obvious. Not sure about the waist, looks like the waist band is standing away a little in the back.
Judging by the deep folds in the seat area I guess the seat seam needs to be corrected. It's too high up, so all the cloth is sitting below the seat. I'd say that the front rise is fine, but the rear seat seam needs to be scooped out a bit, perhaps the waist band lowered in the back as well (to take out the extra length in the rear trousers).
Again, lots of work for an alteration tailor, plus he/ she needs to be very skilled and knowledgeable. If Indochino has an alteration (or remake) service, and you consider sending the suit back, do the following:
Pin away the excess cloth along the side seams, but make sure you don't create tension at the front button and create drags from there towards the back. Mark the amount you want the shoulders to be taken in, same with sleeve length (right one is ok).
Do mark the amount that the waistband needs to be tighter and pin away the excess cloth beneath the seat. Pin the hem to get the correct length.
BTW, many customers grab their coats at the centre front to show how large the coat is. It's only too large when you can do it without causing major distortion in other areas like back and seat (like you do).
Looking at the pictures I'd say that for an internet ordered suit it's not that bad. It's tough to get it right without having seen you.

 

Tailorgod wow, this is a great response, so much information to digest.

 

I spoke to my regular tailor yesterday, and she told me to take in 1.5" off the side seams around the chest area, she actually pinned it down and showed me, and I like the result very much. 

 

She didn't mention the issues around the sleeve pitch or the shoulder.  I found that a bit disappointing, maybe it's time for me to get another tailor, but I digress.

 

Here are some follow-up questions.

1. On the sleeve pitch, how much should I tell Indochino to rotate it forward(e.g. 10, 15 or 20 degrees)?

2. "Trouser: Length is obvious", how do you mean?  Should I decrease it by 1/2" or 1"?

3. How much shoulder reduction should I shoot for?  I'm thinking 1/2" on both ends resulting in 1" reduction in total.

4. How much reduction in sleeve length on the left and right? Sound like the right one is ok.  Will the shoulder reduction in question 3 result in sleeve reduction?

5. "rear seat seam needs to be scooped out a bit, perhaps the waist band lowered in the back as well".  I don't completely understand this sentence, do you recommend lower the seat seam by 1/2"?  and lower the waist band in addition by 1/2"?

 

As you can tell, I'm quite new at MTM suit process, so thank you for your patience.

post #38 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by tailorgod View Post

Sleeves: Need to be rotated forward. Not an easy alteration (takes lot of skill and time) and therefore costly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormRider View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tailorgod View Post


Sleeves: Need to be rotated forward. Not an easy alteration (takes lot of skill and time) and therefore costly. While the sleeves are out, have the shoulders narrowed according to your taste.


Tailorgod wow, this is a great response, so much information to digest.
She didn't mention the issues around the sleeve pitch or the shoulder.  I found that a bit disappointing, maybe it's time for me to get another tailor, but I digress.

Here are some follow-up questions.
1. On the sleeve pitch, how much should I tell Indochino to rotate it forward(e.g. 10, 15 or 20 degrees)?



This is wrong. The sleeves are rotated back not forward. The problem here is the sleeves are set too far forward and not following the natural fall of your arm. 75% of the time it is not necessary to rotate the sleeve but to trim the sleeve head and crown to match the armhole. You have to be sure of the cause.
post #39 of 105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tailorgod View Post

Sleeves: Need to be rotated forward. Not an easy alteration (takes lot of skill and time) and therefore costly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormRider View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tailorgod View Post

Sleeves: Need to be rotated forward. Not an easy alteration (takes lot of skill and time) and therefore costly. While the sleeves are out, have the shoulders narrowed according to your taste.
Tailorgod wow, this is a great response, so much information to digest.
She didn't mention the issues around the sleeve pitch or the shoulder.  I found that a bit disappointing, maybe it's time for me to get another tailor, but I digress.
Here are some follow-up questions.
1. On the sleeve pitch, how much should I tell Indochino to rotate it forward(e.g. 10, 15 or 20 degrees)?
This is wrong. The sleeves are rotated back not forward. The problem here is the sleeves are set too far forward and not following the natural fall of your arm. 75% of the time it is not necessary to rotate the sleeve but to trim the sleeve head and crown to match the armhole. You have to be sure of the cause.

Despos, that makes a lot of sense.  Looking at the photos again, it looks like the lines appear to be indicate the backward rotation is called for, meaning clockwise on the right sleeve.  Sounds like the sleeve head and crown are too large for the armhole, anything I can tell Indochino to fix that? 

 

When I ordered the suit, I told Indochino to do "high armhole", could that have contributed to the problem?  But I also don't want to have low armhole, so I'm torn.

 

Thanks.

post #40 of 105
The sleeve pitch is very important, because it has major effects on the fit of a garment.
The folds in the back of the sleeve (as Despos pointed out correctly) means that you need a lower pitch. Decent bespoke tailors will not only mark the correct sleeve pitch during the fitting, they will also adjust the sleeve accordingly.
Take a look at this animation. The regular position is the one with the black arrows. Low pitch is red, high pitch is blue:

sleevepitchanimation.gif

On a regular sleeve, with a low pitch the folds are in the back, with a high pitch they are in the front:

SleevesPosture3.jpg

Third and last picture show the corrected fall of the sleeve.

I tried to find the Indochino measuring process on their site, but it appears I would have to open an account to get there.

Tip for measuring trousers correctly (doesn't matter whether or not the one you're wearing for that fits well or not) make sure you are wearing proper dress shoes:

Step 1: let the waistband rest on your hip bones. That is usually the reference position to start with. Then measure both sides from below the waistband down to the sole of your shoes, not down to the floor.
Step 2: Pull the trousers up to the position where the crotch is touching your genitals, but make sure it's still comfortable. Then you measure the inside leg from the crotch seam down to the soles of your shoes. The correct length depends massively on the width of the hem, narrow trousers need to be shorter, wider ones can be longer:

dsc00107qj6.jpg

If they advise you to not wear shoes, then just measure down to the floor. Correcting the length of a trouser is a simple task for any alteration tailor.

Almost all people have differing legs, meaning that one leg is longer than the other ( or more precisely: one hip is stronger than the other). A hint to spot which is it is to recognise the side with the lower shoulder:

RSHngeschulterrechts-001.jpg

For getting the "correct" shoulder width (the opinions here vary a great deal), a good reference point is the so called "acromion" :

125696.jpg

It's quite easy to feel, since it sticks out a bit. From there it should be 1/2" or so to get a decent shoulder width.

Despos, if you take X as the reference point, rotating backwards is, of course, correct. I was referring to the crown, which needs to be rotated forward.biggrin.gif
post #41 of 105
Thread Starter 
Tailorgod, again excellent information, will take me a bit to digest, thanks.
Edited by StormRider - 9/11/12 at 10:31am
post #42 of 105
Looking at the pictures JefferyD shows on his blog I'd say that their sleeves need more attention in the future.
It appears that one of the (negative) hallmarks of low price RTW and MTM are poorly set in sleeves.

7810602228_db5563f30a_b.jpg

7810603536_e472bad51b_k-1.jpg
post #43 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by tailorgod View Post

Take a look at this animation. The regular position is the one with the black arrows. Low pitch is red, high pitch is blue:
sleevepitchanimation.gif

So a tailor just takes off the sleeve, rotates it, then attaches it back to the armscye? It's that simple?
post #44 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Svenn View Post

So a tailor just takes off the sleeve, rotates it, then attaches it back to the armscye? It's that simple?

It's only simple when the sleeve does match the armhole in crown height and width. If that's not the case, a re-cut of the sleeve might be necessary.
In any case you'd need a skilled and experienced tailor. If you want the shoulders to be taken in as well the whole operation might take up to 3 to 5 hours.
When the shoulder becomes narrower the armhole becomes wider (it's like a circle, you increase the diameter), which means you have to also let out the sleeve seams!
The rotation will throw a check out of it's matching position in the front, but with an already finished coat that's all that can be done.

BTW. I found instructions from Indochino for being measured. Hilarious: "Go to your local tailor and get yourself measured"! rotflmao.gif They apparently keep things very simple...
post #45 of 105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tailorgod View Post


It's only simple when the sleeve does match the armhole in crown height and width. If that's not the case, a re-cut of the sleeve might be necessary.
In any case you'd need a skilled and experienced tailor. If you want the shoulders to be taken in as well the whole operation might take up to 3 to 5 hours.
When the shoulder becomes narrower the armhole becomes wider (it's like a circle, you increase the diameter), which means you have to also let out the sleeve seams!
The rotation will throw a check out of it's matching position in the front, but with an already finished coat that's all that can be done.
BTW. I found instructions from Indochino for being measured. Hilarious: "Go to your local tailor and get yourself measured"! rotflmao.gif They apparently keep things very simple...

Just to confirm, to fix the sleeves on my Indochino suit, I should ask Indochino to rotate the sleeves toward the back of the body, and to match the sleeve crown & size to the armhole.

 

I suspect even if a tailor measured me, the suit would still be off because their measurement is very particular if you watch the video.  Apparently, some people who got measured by the traveling tailor in Chicago had the suit that is too snug, I wonder what Indochino's instruction to the traveling tailors (local help mostly likely) are.

 

Thanks again.


Edited by StormRider - 9/11/12 at 9:54pm
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