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A visit to John Lobb in Northampton - Page 3

post #31 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by sysdoc
I am sure he also didn't expect you going on about an alleged JL shoe production in Mexico that happens to be based on pure hearsay.
In all fairness, I expect Oscar also didn't expect his statement about Mexican production to be broadcast on the internet. Yes, I'm concurring with sysdoc on this one.
post #32 of 107
Sysdoc? He lives?
post #33 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJman
In all fairness, I expect Oscar also didn't expect his statement about Mexican production to be broadcast on the internet. Yes, I'm concurring with sysdoc on this one.

Yeah, what they said. Way to go Nancy Drew.
post #34 of 107
We seem to have got ourselves into some complexity about ethics. An objective view as I see it would be something along the following lines: A lot of people buying JL shoes may well believe that these shoes have something to do with the legendary John Lobb. May be these shoes should be branded "Hermes designed shoes manufactured in the old Edward Green factory" in the increasingly transparent world that we live in. Furthermore, the US laws, I believe, would require a "made in Mexico" label if and when Mexican JL shoes come into US. I am not sure how the esteemed customers of JL would react to these two realities, even though as we know the shoes would be very much the same shoes. If "a genuinely nice person" was taken "advatage of", an issue of ethics does arise; provided of course that the person indulging in this was aware that he is taking advantage of an innocent good fellow. If it occured, then the wrong needs to set right, and one needs to figure out how to do that. An emotional approach is not helpful. Now about the Mexican production. If the intent is not to do it, then JL would not suffer. If JL does do it without declaring it and accepting it publicly, then the customer is perhaps being misled. And, as I said earlier, US law would most probably require disclosure. Hence I do not see how talking about this one should be a source of annoyance to anyone: it is a rumour, either factually correct or, if not so, to be denied! Anyway, this is my tuppence worth!
post #35 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by observer
We seem to have got ourselves into some complexity about ethics. An objective view as I see it would be something along the following lines:

A lot of people buying JL shoes may well believe that these shoes have something to do with the legendary John Lobb. May be these shoes should be branded "Hermes designed shoes manufactured in the old Edward Green factory" in the increasingly transparent world that we live in. Furthermore, the US laws, I believe, would require a "made in Mexico" label if and when Mexican JL shoes come into US. I am not sure how the esteemd customers of JL would react to these two realities, even though as we as know the shoes would be very much the same shoes.

If "a genuinely nice person" was taken "advatage of", an issue of ethics does arise; provided of course that the person indulging in this was aware that he is taking advantage of an innocent good fellow. If it occured, then the wrong needs to set right, and one needs to figure out how to do that. An emotional approach is not helpful.

Now about the Mexican production. If the intent is not to do it, then JL would not suffer. If JL does do it without declaring it and accepting it publicly, then the customer is perhaps being misled. And, as I said earlier, US law would most probably require disclosure. Hence I do not how talking about this one should be a source of annoyance to anyone: it is a rumour, either factually correct or, if not so, to be denied!

Anyway, this is my tuppence worth!
sorry guy....I don't get it.
If I buy Lobb I buy them because of their quality and not because they are made in England.
A "Made in Mexiko" doesn't bother me at all.
post #36 of 107
I spent a boring summer as an au pair in Northampton, I had no idea then I was so close to a gold mine! All I remember is rain, rain, rain, to quote Bryan Ferry.
post #37 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJman
In all fairness, I expect Oscar also didn't expect his statement about Mexican production to be broadcast on the internet. Yes, I'm concurring with sysdoc on this one.

You may be right about this but, if this is the case, he shouldn't be revealing this information to the general public. Also, as was pointed out above, the Mexican production information is hearsay.

Regarding the picture taking, the proper thing to have done (IMHO) would have been to ask the folks at JL whether they had a problem with the taking and distribution of pictures (for all we know, bishop actually did this). While I have no reason to doubt him, I would point out that sysdoc's post above is also hearsay to this point.
post #38 of 107
What if Bishop and Sysdoc are actually the same person, that is when they're not being Vaclav Krishna?
post #39 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by bishop24


Very nice - the JL 2007 is a winner! The last looks different to me than the usual JL special editions.

My serious question about this thread is whether seeing this shoe in advance of its release represents sensitive competitive information that gives JL's rivals some unfair advantage?
post #40 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by EL72
My serious question about this thread is whether seeing this shoe in advance of its release represents sensitive competitive information that gives JL's rivals some unfair advantage?
Doubtful, because (so far as I know) Lobb is the only shoe company that reguarly brings out new models every year. If EG or some other company did that, and had a chance to revise their desings based on this "leak", then maybe.

Still, Lobb would probably not be happy to have this info out in public at this time, I am guessing ...
post #41 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton
Doubtful, because (so far as I know) Lobb is the only shoe company that reguarly brings out new models every year. If EG or some other company did that, and had a chance to revise their desings based on this "leak", then maybe.

Still, Lobb would probably not be happy to have this info out in public at this time, I am guessing ...

Yes, but if you were EG or C&J and saw this now, wouldn't you try to copy the design and release it before JL (assuming that is even feasible at this point) in order to scoop some of their customers. I realize rivalry in the mens shoe industry may not be as fierce as that scenario would imply but still...
post #42 of 107
I am curious how Factory store prices of C & J EG and JL compare to each other?
Is there significant difference in price? I would expect so especially in a case of C&J overstocks. Please shed some light.
post #43 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by EL72
Yes, but if you were EG or C&J and saw this now, wouldn't you try to copy the design and release it before JL (assuming that is even feasible at this point) in order to scoop some of their customers?
Maybe, but maybe not. Those companies are going after different segments of the market. An EG customer wants a more conservative shoe. A C&J customer does not want to pay Lobb prices, etc.

I'm not saying it couldn't happen, only that there are good reasons why it probably wouldn't.
post #44 of 107
This thread is really bringing out the worst in everyone.
post #45 of 107
Thread Starter 
For what it's worth, my intention in taking these photos was never to take advantage of hospitality offered.

The rooms that you see are adjacent to each other. When I was let into the building by one of their middle-aged Japanese workers, the shop was still closed and so they led me into the conference room right next door. There, an older gentlemen, who as sysdoc indicates was one of their clickers, offered me a coffee. The lady who ran the shop arrived and I left my bags and went into the shop.

There, I tried on shoes then asked if I could take some photos which the lady who ran the shop said was fine. There were clear areas of the building that seemed cut-off to me--for example, entering the factory space and even their small kitchenette--and in those instances, I did not venture further.

I was excited to see the JL 2007 and even though I had not seen it before, I wasn't sure that this was the case with others. Many designers are showing their Fall / Winter 2007 collections now and this would seem to jive with JL's timing in producing this shoe. My feeling was that if it were meant to be a closely guarded secret it wouldn't be in an unlocked room that had windows that was intended to receive guests. Regardless, I'm sorry if I got anyone in trouble.

As far as my conversation at Udeshi, I really think that his comment should be taken with a grain of salt. He has no affiliation with John Lobb and for what I know it could be completely false. My visit to the JL factory shop versus the Edward Green factory seemed to support his claim purely on an instinctual level alone. And while I didn't in this case ask Oscar if I could quote him on what he was saying, our conversation was not carried in any sort of "hush hush" or "don't tell anyone but..." tone. It was more of a:

"The prices at John Lobb's factory store were pretty good."
"Yeah, but did you know that they're making some of their shoes in xxx..."

If I should feel unethical writing about our conversation in that regard, I think I should feel equally uncomfortable about relating to you all what he told me about the watermarks on his silver cufflinks and what they stand for.
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