Considering leaving my tailor

First, I just wanted to comment that it's hard to believe I'm going on ten years with the forvm. My interest in clothing has waned over the years; it's may sound surprising, but it is DT that has kept me in touch. Now, perhaps coincidentally, my interest in clothing has resurged, and at the same time I've noticed a(n) [another?] wonderful renaissance in the forvm.

I was introduced to my tailor through posts on this site. My tailor could not be any more SF approved, but will go nameless for the moment. I've commissioned a total of three suits, and am not completely happy with any of them.

I wonder how much of this was my fault. Sometimes, you can be your own worse enemy when it comes to bespoke, and I fear that I've fallen victim to myself. High buttoning point and a short coat for starters. Surprisingly, it was hard for me to spot these flaws until I snapped these pictures. I don't think either flatter my figure.

Most importantly, I don't like the shoulders of any of these suits. The first was my attempt at a pagoda shape with roped shoulders. I think it was an utter failure. This went back to the tailor for repair, and what is below is what I'm told is the best repair they can do. The second suit has a similar shaped shoulder, but fits better. This is probably my favorite suit. For the third commission I snapped the shoulder and asked for something more natural. The fit (in the shoulder) is fine, but I just don't love it.

#1 and #2

#3


I think I have a fairly normal build. Wide shoulders and large upper arms are the only real challenges that I am aware of. These factors are what drove me to bespoke in the first place. However, I'm still not sure what kind of shoulders would flatter my body best. As an aside, I just wanted to mention that to my tailor's credit, I've been a moving target for some time, with rapid weight gain and loss again. Regardless, I've recently dabbled a bit into RTW. I found a couple of beautiful suits that I enjoy wearing quite a bit. Here is one:



Comments on fit would be appreciated. This looks like a natural shoulder to me, shirt-sleeve style.

At this point, I find myself as a cross-roads. Stay with my tailor and try to work things out, go RTW, or find a new tailor and start over. Thoughts?

Fire the tailor, and tell him why.
There's nothing worse than going MTM or bespoke, and deferring to the expert, only to realize he's full of ****, and the outcome is garbage.
You should love the outfit.


Here are the 3 bespoke suits with a little more contrast


#1
Closed quarters.
Pants are baggy.
Break is too full.
Very high buttoning point. Is this a 3 button suit?
Bad shoulder
Sleeves too long (Not showing cuff)

#2
Very high buttoning points.
Bad shoulder
Sleeves uneven

#3
Sleeves too long (Not showing cuff)

The final RTW one looks far better than the 3 bespoke... that back is unusually nice. What brand is it? I agree you should fire the bespoke tailor, especially if you're getting such a perfect fit with RTW. There's no real reason to go bespoke in that case unless you want a specific type of fabric or detail feature. Is the tailor an individual or a company like WW Chan?

#2 looks the best to me of the 3... 1 has baggy pants, high button point and closed quarters, rather squared off too. pants too long. #3 pants still not falling well at hips, also too wide there, and too long. button point is low and overall silhouette makes you look heavy / hourglass. #2 needs slimmer bicep area... otherwise it's the best of the bunch.

just my $0.02

your RTW looks pretty good actually. Needs a little work though. pants could be slimmed. back of the jacket needs to be released in upper back (see horizontal pulling) and pulled in a bit at the lower back.


and not to sound challenging, but where on the spectrum of MTM/Bespoke is this tailor ACTUALLY falling... ie I'm assuming it's not 'real' bespoke with a custom pattern, so the question is more, how much MTM and how much RTW is the suit when you ordered it (if you know what I mean)

Reevolving,
Thanks for the help with the pictures. Yes, Bespoke #1 is a three button, rolled to 2.5. That is the middle button that is buttoned.

Svenn,
Thanks for the compliment. The jacket for the RTW was made by Kiton (old stock) and was tailored by a local custom tailor. Unfortunately, most RTW does not fit like this on me, and neither has any other Kiton I have tried. I did not include a side-shot, but the balance is off (tilted forward) and the transition from jacket to pants is not smooth. Small nits, the likes of which can only be addressed in bespoke. I'm trying to come to terms with how much I should care about such things.

The bespoke tailor is a company, not a one man shop.

Master-Classter said:

your RTW looks pretty good actually. Needs a little work though. pants could be slimmed. back of the jacket needs to be released in upper back (see horizontal pulling) and pulled in a bit at the lower back.

Click to expand...

Those ripples mean the collar needs to be lowered.



Master-Classter said:

#2 looks the best to me of the 3... 1 has baggy pants, high button point and closed quarters, rather squared off too. pants too long. #3 pants still not falling well at hips, also too wide there, and too long. button point is low and overall silhouette makes you look heavy / hourglass. #2 needs slimmer bicep area... otherwise it's the best of the bunch.
just my $0.02
your RTW looks pretty good actually. Needs a little work though. pants could be slimmed. back of the jacket needs to be released in upper back (see horizontal pulling) and pulled in a bit at the lower back.
and not to sound challenging, but where on the spectrum of MTM/Bespoke is this tailor ACTUALLY falling... ie I'm assuming it's not 'real' bespoke with a custom pattern, so the question is more, how much MTM and how much RTW is the suit when you ordered it (if you know what I mean)

Click to expand...

I agree, I like #2 the best. In the upper arm, however, I think I actually need more room, not less. I think all of your other comments are spot on. Particularly with regard to #3 being hourglass and the hips of the pants. These are all "fixable," I just don't know how much more energy I want to spend on this particular tailor. Thoughts on that?

I know exactly what you mean when you refer to the MTM/Bespoke spectrum. They fall squarely in the bespoke category. Why the skepticism?

To my eye, the RTW suit fits and looks best of all. I'd find another tailor or continue with RTW rather than continue with your current tailor.

#2 is pretty good.

#3 and RTW are both decent decent

#1 is pretty fail.

Does #2 look better than #3 b/c of the arm position ?
The gap between the arms and body make #2 look much more fitted / slimmed down.

Are the first 3 black??

The term "bespoke" is so mis-used around here that it's almost meaningless.

There are lots of bespoke tailors/operations that churn out utter failures, as multiple examples on this forum will attest to.

Then there are the trie-and-true bespoke operations like Despos, WW Chan, Rubinacci (just to name a few) that 99% of time will deliver bespoke products like SF'ers envision them to be.


Good bespoke operations need to combine tailoring skill and TASTE.

Your tailor, to my eyes, lack taste by allowing you to walk out of his shop looking like the picture in #1.



lee_44106 said:

Then there are the trie-and-true bespoke operations like Despos, WW Chan, Rubinacci (just to name a few) that 99% of time will deliver bespoke products like SF'ers envision them to be.

Click to expand...

To me, these look like they could be Chan. IMO, Chan and most other tailors are best doing their default silhouette - the greater the deviation, the greater the risk of error.

Um, this is a tried and true bespoke operation. SF approved to the max. Does that change your answer as far as what I should do next?



Reevolving said:

Does #2 look better than #3 b/c of the arm position ?
The gap between the arms and body make #2 look much more fitted / slimmed down.

Click to expand...

I think it is the lower buttoning point combined with more open quarters in #3.