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Official 2012 College Football Season Thread - Page 38

post #556 of 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedLantern View Post

How does the fact that the best team in the SEC each year is likely the best team in the country support the assertion that the SEC has 6 of the top 10 teams in the country at any given time?

Because the sample size is large enough for one to realize that the SEC has absolutely skull-fucked the rest of college football the last 8 years or so, since the demise of USC. If an 8-1 record in BCS title games isn't indicative enough, take a look at the BCS Bowls, where the SEC is 16-6 since 2000. You could also look at their Cotton Bowl record, which is played by the #3 SEC team and the #2 or 3 Big 12 team. The SEC has won 8 of the last 9 meetings, with its lone loss being that of an Arkansas team that didn't have a coach. They have four more BCS wins than the second place conference (Big 10) but the Big 10 has only won 49% of its BCS games while the SEC has won 70% of its games. Because of the two team limit per conference, the SEC has probably missed more BCS bowl opportunities than any other conference, which we can suspect they would also win quite a few of, considering they have the best bowl record of any conference over the past ten years.


Bowl records by Conference since 2000

Pos Team Record Points Opps Rec (-HtH)
1. MWC (14-7-0)--0.66667 (27.10-22.14) (154-93-0)--0.62348
2. SEC (48-33-0)--0.59259[1] (26.41-22.78) (707-254-0)--0.73569
3. Pac-12 (27-21-0)--0.56250[2] (29.58-26.44) (415-155-0)--0.72807
4. Big East (23-21-0)--0.52273 (25.86-27.09) (356-168-0)--0.67939
5. Big 12 (38-38-0)--0.50000 (27.13-27.54) (630-270-0)--0.70000
6. ACC (32-36-0)--0.47059[3] (24.01-23.13) (560-244-0)--0.69652
6. WAC (8-9-0)--0.47059 (27.41-32.06) (122-80-0)--0.60396
8. Big Ten (29-44-0)--0.39726[4] (24.44-28.88) (630-238-0)--0.72581
9. Independent (2-8-0)--0.20000 (19.50-30.40) (83-35-0)--0.70339
10. CUSA (2-13-0)--0.13333 (18.93-30.53) (106-72-0)--0.59551
11. MAC (1-10-0)--0.09091 (23.09-35.73) (74-56-0)--0.56923
(224-240-0)--0.48276 (25.74-26.39) (3837-1665-0)--0.69738

If actually winning games isn't up your alley, the SEC also dominates recruiting ever year, and usually at least 6-8 SEC teams are in the top 15. Since I suspect their coaches don't suck, one could conclude that the SEC will just be......better, as it has been, nearly every single year by a considerable margin.
post #557 of 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRon View Post


There are basically 4 teams in the SEC that are consistently successful.

There are actually about 7

Alabama
Florida
LSU
Auburn
Georgia
Arkansas
South Carolina

When only one team can win the conference and only two teams can win BCS games a season, it's impossible for all of these schools to be "consistently successful" in any way you might qualitatively say they can be successful, except in the capacity in which they beat the shit out of other conferences when they play, which they do.
post #558 of 861
I wouldn't exactly call Auburn, South Carolina, and Arkansas consistently successful (at least in the BCS era). The rest on the list I can agree with. Florida, LSU, and Georgia have probably been the most consistent in the BCS era while Alabama has been really good lately. Before Saban were some pretty lean years.
post #559 of 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenHero View Post

There are actually about 7
Alabama
Florida
LSU
Auburn
Georgia
Arkansas
South Carolina
When only one team can win the conference and only two teams can win BCS games a season, it's impossible for all of these schools to be "consistently successful" in any way you might qualitatively say they can be successful, except in the capacity in which they beat the shit out of other conferences when they play, which they do.

You're missing the point. In aggregate, I don't think anyone is arguing the SEC is not the strongest conference in the BCS era. Historically, the SEC is a top conference, but plays very few difficult non-conference opponents outside of bowl play (where they have an awful lot of "home" games).

That said, the DEPTH is not where you think it is. Different teams are at the top over medium periods of time, but about 4-5 teams are consistently contenders. Still, the bottom 7-8 of the SEC are not really any stronger than the bottom 7-8 of other conferences.... meaning an SEC team with 1 loss has probably proven themselves more than an undefeated team from another conference, but a 2 or 3 loss SEC team is average. And it's highly unlikely that 6 teams in the SEC at any point in time is realistic.

This Season, SC was doing well until injury, but historically, SC has mostly LOST crap bowls... not sure how getting into BCS bowls would have helped them:


Date Bowl W/L Opponent PF PA Head Coach
January 1, 1946 Gator L Wake Forest 14 26 McMillan
December 30, 1969 Peach L West Virginia 3 14 Dietzel
December 20, 1975 Tangerine L Miami (OH) 7 20 Carlen
December 20, 1979 Hall of Fame Classic L Missouri 14 24 Carlen
December 29, 1980 Gator L Pittsburgh 9 37 Carlen
December 28, 1984 Gator L Oklahoma State 14 21 Morrison
December 31, 1987 Gator L LSU 13 31 Morrison
December 28, 1988 Liberty L Indiana 10 34 Morrison
January 2, 1995 Carquest W West Virginia 24 21 Scott
January 1, 2001 Outback W Ohio State 24 7 Holtz
January 1, 2002 Outback W Ohio State 31 28 Holtz
December 30, 2005 Independence L Missouri 31 38 Spurrier
December 29, 2006 Liberty W Houston 44 36 Spurrier
January 1, 2009 Outback L Iowa 10 31 Spurrier
January 2, 2010 PapaJohns.com L Connecticut 7 20 Spurrier
December 31, 2010 Chick-fil-A L Florida State 17 26 Spurrier
January 2, 2012 Capital One W Nebraska 30 13 Spurrier
Total 17 Bowl Games 5-12 302 427

Arkansas - same story - near 30% win rate in slightly better bowls. Lost their one BCS opportunity, but I think OSU had to give up that win, so that's a non-game:
ARKANSAS BOWL GAMES
Season Bowl Opponent Result
1933 Dixie Classic Centenary 7 - 7 T
1946 Cotton Bowl LSU 0 - 0 T
1947 Dixie Bowl William & Mary 21 - 19 W
1954 Cotton Bowl Georgia Tech 14 - 6 L
1959 Gator Bowl Georgia Tech 14 - 7 W
1960 Cotton Bowl Duke 7 - 6 L
1961 Sugar Bowl Alabama 10 - 3 L
1962 Sugar Bowl Ole Miss 17 - 13 L
1964 Cotton Bowl Nebraska 10 - 7 W
1965 Cotton Bowl LSU 14 - 7 L
1968 Sugar Bowl Georgia 16 - 2 W
1969 Sugar Bowl Ole Miss 27 - 22 L
1971 Liberty Bowl Tennessee 14 - 13 L
1975 Cotton Bowl Georgia 31 - 10 W
1977 Orange Bowl Oklahoma 31 - 6 W
1978 Fiesta Bowl UCLA 10 - 10 T
1979 Sugar Bowl Alabama 24 - 9 L
1980 Hall of Fame Bowl Tulane 34 - 15 W
1981 Gator Bowl North Carolina 31 - 27 L
1982 Bluebonnet Bowl Florida 28 - 24 W
1984 Liberty Bowl Auburn 21 - 15 L
1985 Holiday Bowl Arizona State 18 - 17 W
1986 Orange Bowl Oklahoma 42 - 8 L
1987 Liberty Bowl Georgia 20 - 17 L
1988 Cotton Bowl UCLA 17 - 3 L
1989 Cotton Bowl Tennessee 31 - 27 L
1991 Independence Bowl Georgia 24 - 15 L
1995 Carquest Bowl North Carolina 20 - 10 L
1998 Citrus Bowl Michigan 45 - 31 L
1999 Cotton Bowl Texas 27 - 6 W
2000 Las Vegas Bowl UNLV 31 - 14 L
2001 Cotton Bowl Oklahoma 10 - 3 L
2002 Music City Bowl Minnesota 29 - 14 L
2003 Independence Bowl Missouri 27 - 14 W
2006 Capital One Bowl Wisconsin 17 - 14 L
2007 Cotton Bowl Missouri 38 - 7 L
2009 Liberty Bowl East Carolina 20 - 17 W
2010 Sugar Bowl Ohio State 31 - 26 L
2011 Cotton Bowl Kansas State 29 - 16 W

Florida: about 50% in bowls, but still sort of a Johnny come lately. Also - many recent losses to B1G teams in the gator/cap1 game:
LORIDA BOWL GAMES
Season Bowl Opponent Result
1912 Bacardi Bowl Vedado Athletic Club 28 - 0 W
1952 Gator Bowl Tulsa 14 - 13 W
1958 Gator Bowl Ole Miss 7 - 3 L
1960 Gator Bowl Baylor 13 - 12 W
1962 Gator Bowl Penn State 17 - 7 W
1965 Sugar Bowl Missouri 20 - 18 L
1966 Orange Bowl Georgia Tech 27 - 12 W
1969 Gator Bowl Tennessee 14 - 13 W
1973 Tangerine Bowl Miami, OH 16 - 7 L
1974 Sugar Bowl Nebraska 13 - 10 L
1975 Gator Bowl Maryland 13 - 0 L
1976 Sun Bowl Texas A&M 37 - 14 L
1980 Tangerine Bowl Maryland 35 - 20 W
1981 Peach Bowl West Virginia 26 - 6 L
1982 Bluebonnet Bowl Arkansas 28 - 24 L
1983 Gator Bowl Iowa 14 - 6 W
1987 Aloha Bowl UCLA 20 - 16 L
1988 All-American Bowl Illinois 14 - 10 W
1989 Freedom Bowl Washington 34 - 7 L
1991 Sugar Bowl Notre Dame 39 - 28 L
1992 Gator Bowl North Carolina State 27 - 10 W
1993 Sugar Bowl West Virginia 41 - 7 W
1994 Sugar Bowl Florida State 23 - 17 L
1995 Fiesta Bowl Nebraska 62 - 24 L
1996 Sugar Bowl Florida State 52 - 20 W
1997 Citrus Bowl Penn State 21 - 6 W
1998 Orange Bowl Syracuse 31 - 10 W
1999 Citrus Bowl Michigan State 37 - 34 L
2000 Sugar Bowl Miami 37 - 20 L
2001 Orange Bowl Maryland 56 - 23 W
2002 Outback Bowl Michigan 38 - 30 L
2003 Outback Bowl Iowa 37 - 17 L
2004 Peach Bowl Miami 27 - 10 L
2005 Outback Bowl Iowa 31 - 24 W
2006 BCS Championship Ohio State 41 - 14 W
2007 Capital One Bowl Michigan 41 - 35 L
2008 BCS Championship Oklahoma 24 - 14 W
2009 Sugar Bowl Cincinnati 51 - 24 W
2010 Outback Bowl Penn State 37 - 24 W
2011 Gator Bowl Ohio State 24 - 17 W
post #560 of 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRon View Post

You're missing the point. In aggregate, I don't think anyone is arguing the SEC is not the strongest conference in the BCS era. Historically, the SEC is a top conference, but plays very few difficult non-conference opponents outside of bowl play (where they have an awful lot of "home" games).
That said, the DEPTH is not where you think it is. Different teams are at the top over medium periods of time, but about 4-5 teams are consistently contenders. Still, the bottom 7-8 of the SEC are not really any stronger than the bottom 7-8 of other conferences.... meaning an SEC team with 1 loss has probably proven themselves more than an undefeated team from another conference, but a 2 or 3 loss SEC team is average. And it's highly unlikely that 6 teams in the SEC at any point in time is realistic.
This Season, SC was doing well until injury, but historically, SC has mostly LOST crap bowls... not sure how getting into BCS bowls would have helped them:

It's hard to play great out of conference opponents when most of the great opponents are in your conference. Many schools won't schedule SEC teams because they know they're likely to lose, and they have a better chance going to a BCS bowl by not playing an SEC team. That's not the SEC's fault. And I don't fault Alabama for only playing one good out of conference game. They're already playing more quality opponents than every other team in every other conference most years just during the conference season.

The bottom 7 or 8 teams in the SEC are absolutely better than the bottom 7 or 8 teams in other conferences. It's not even close.
post #561 of 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenHero View Post

It's hard to play great out of conference opponents when most of the great opponents are in your conference. Many schools won't schedule SEC teams because they know they're likely to lose, and they have a better chance going to a BCS bowl by not playing an SEC team. That's not the SEC's fault. And I don't fault Alabama for only playing one good out of conference game. They're already playing more quality opponents than every other team in every other conference most years just during the conference season.

Again ... bullshit. They hate to travel. Alabama bucked the trend the last few years doing a home and away with Penn State... but the SEC doesn't play good non-conference opponents because they don't like to play in the north, and G-d forbid they play in the cold.
Quote:
The bottom 7 or 8 teams in the SEC are absolutely better than the bottom 7 or 8 teams in other conferences. It's not even close.

Sorry - but I would bet the farm on Purdue/Indiana/Nwern/Colorado/Baylor/Iowa State to beat Vandy/Kentucky/Miss State/Ole Miss most years. You're dreaming.
post #562 of 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRon View Post

Again ... bullshit. They hate to travel. Alabama bucked the trend the last few years doing a home and away with Penn State... but the SEC doesn't play good non-conference opponents because they don't like to play in the north, and G-d forbid they play in the cold.

Considering non-conference games are primarily played in September, I doubt they're worried about playing on those frigid 75 degree afternoons. You're laying singular blame for something that takes two to tango. Show me a good team that has been trying to playing great SEC teams in non-conference but hasn't been able to, and I'll show you a team that is asking for its season to be spoiled early.
post #563 of 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenHero View Post

Considering non-conference games are primarily played in September, I doubt they're worried about playing on those frigid 75 degree afternoons. You're laying singular blame for something that takes two to tango. Show me a good team that has been trying to playing great SEC teams in non-conference and I'll show you a team that is asking for its season to be spoiled early.

Actually, the SEC is the only FBS conference that plays most of their non-conference games later.

Bama played W Carolina in mid-november this year.
Arkansas played Tulsa in November
Auburn had two d2 non-conference games in November
Florida finished its conference schedule on 11/3
UGA 2 non-conference games in nov


are you looking at these teams?

So - Bama absolutely CRUSHED the scUM on a neutral field in the south. LSU traveled to Washington to take on the dregs of the PAC10, and a few teams (Florida, SC) have legit rivalry weekend games out of conference.

Every other non-conference opponent is a BAD team even in D2/non-FBS world.
post #564 of 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenHero View Post

Considering non-conference games are primarily played in September, I doubt they're worried about playing on those frigid 75 degree afternoons. You're laying singular blame for something that takes two to tango. Show me a good team that has been trying to playing great SEC teams in non-conference but hasn't been able to, and I'll show you a team that is asking for its season to be spoiled early.

Boise State? Only SEC school I can think of that scheduled them was Georgia who would only do a home game and a "neutral site" in Atlanta. Okie State did a home and home against Georgia and went 1-1.
post #565 of 861
Ohio State's non-conference games by year.

2012
Miami Ohio
Central Florida
Cal
UAB

Combined record of those teams: 19-29

2011
Akron
@ Toledo
Miami
Colorado

Combined record: 18-29

2010
Marshall
Ohio
East Michigan
@ Miami FL

Combined record: 22-26

2009
Navy
Toledo
USC
New Mexico State

Combined record: 24-22

2008

Youngstown State
Ohio
@ USC ( Ohio State lost by a mere 33 points)
Troy

Combined record: 27-20





Summary:

-Ohio State has played ONE non-conference game out of Ohio in the last four years, and TWO in the last five years, which they lost. (@ Miami, who sucks and @ USC by 33 points)
-They've played ONE opponent who was ranked in the top 10 in the preseason in the past four years, USC at home, who they lost to. (USC lost 5 games that year).
-There is zero reason to take an Ohio State fan seriously about SEC non-conference scheduling.
post #566 of 861
All I'm asking for is 1 a year. So we played two against the U, USC in 2008 also, Texas the two years prior to that, and have home/away scheduled with Cal, VaTech, and Oklahoma coming up.

Texas, USC, and Okla were all coming off recent National Championships when tOSU scheduled them. The fact that they lost a few of them only highlights the fact that they are willing to take the risk and play the games.
post #567 of 861
Miami lost five games each season you played them.

USC lost five games each season you played them.

Neither finished the season ranked in both seasons.

Ohio State hasn't played a legit title contender for six years or more in the non conference.

Just stop.
post #568 of 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenHero View Post

Miami lost five games each season you played them.
USC lost five games each season you played them.
Neither finished the season ranked in both seasons.
Ohio State hasn't played a legit title contender for six years or more in the non conference.
Just stop.

I'll stop when you can throw me a fact or two - USC lost one game at Oregon State in 2008 and beat Penn State in the Rose Bowl.

How bout some SEC examples?
post #569 of 861
Ohio State has won three non-conference games outside of Ohio in the last decade.

2007: W @ 7-5 Washington
2006: W @ 8-3 Texas
2005: W @ 7-5 NC State

The winningest SEC team over the past decade is LSU, who won six non-conference games outside of Louisiana in the same time period. That's twice as many games. You can't knock the SEC's scheduling with a straight face while still trying to defend Ohio State's much shittier scheduling.

Ohio State didn't play USC in 2008. Wise of them not to.
post #570 of 861
as a huge Bucks fan I think much of the flack we get is not entirely undeserved.... the BiG is relatively weak as of late and it's true our non-conference schedule has been weak as well. If Bucks were eligible I believe they'd match up well with ND and would likely win the Championship... against an SEC contender I'm not so sure. just my 2 cents...
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