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post #9136 of 11478

Was he sailing when he was arrested?

post #9137 of 11478
No. It was in his pocket. What is your point?
post #9138 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biscotti View Post

No. It was in his pocket. What is your point?

Pun intended?
post #9139 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biscotti View Post

No. It was in his pocket. What is your point?

 

Just curious.  Was he rigging?

post #9140 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203 View Post

Just curious.  Was he rigging?

I still don't understand your questioning. It is a tool of a trade.

I'll guess the SF concensus is he shouldn't have had it on because he wasn't actively sailing at the time of his arrest, and therefore, he is fully deserving of the charge he is now facing.

It is a major haste for him, and it looks like it is going to be expensive, I feel for the kid. He is a smart kid, and is now probably goi ng to have to forego training this summer to deal with this bullshit.

I don't even know why the fuck I hop on this forum at all anymore.
post #9141 of 11478
What was he doing when he was arrested? How did they know he had the knife.
As an aside, a marlin spike is a good secondary tool to have on a folding knife (like the awl on a Swiss Army knife).
post #9142 of 11478
He was waiting for the subway, and he had the knife clipped into his pocket--such that the clip of the knife is visible while the knife itself was in his pocket. A police officer approached him and asked him to remove what was clipped into his pocket (the folding pocket knife). He was then processed and jailed.

Cop argued such knife is what is known as "gravity knife"...bullshit. I have the same model knife, as do many others I know. These are just very common pocket knifes with marlin spike. They are tools.

Here is something similar:

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2015/01/a_few_weeks_ago_when.php
post #9143 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biscotti View Post

I still don't understand your questioning. It is a tool of a trade.

I'll guess the SF concensus is he shouldn't have had it on because he wasn't actively sailing at the time of his arrest, and therefore, he is fully deserving of the charge he is now facing.

It is a major haste for him, and it looks like it is going to be expensive, I feel for the kid. He is a smart kid, and is now probably goi ng to have to forego training this summer to deal with this bullshit.

I don't even know why the fuck I hop on this forum at all anymore.

Dude, what the fuck? Sorry about your friend, but you're being way overly defensive.

In terms of how bullshit the cops/prosecutors are being, you have to consider it from their perspective. Your friend was found with an item that clearly can -- and I'm sure has been, by other people, in various contexts -- used as a weapon. It's a knife. So is a butcher's knife. A machete is a tool with a perfectly innocent primary use. So is an axe. So is a hammer. So is a screwdriver.
All can be pretty effective weapons as well. All have been used to kill people.
So when somebody is found to have one of those weapons on them, the cops/prosecutors have to make an assessment: given the totality of the circumstances, do we think it's more likely this person was carrying it for the purpose of having a weapon, or to use it for its primary purpose. Were they at a job site where one typically uses that tool? Or traveling to and from that job site? Or were they at a roller derby match, in dark alley, or in a crack house?
I obviously don't know what happened, but I can imagine it's possible that the circumstances that led to the cops or whoever finding the knife on him could be relevant. I.E., was he carrying it openly, or did he find himself in a situation where the cops concluded they needed to check him for weapons and found the knife in the process?

Just saw your response above. Yeah, I'd agree with you that those facts definitely weigh in favor of it being toward the bullshit side of the spectrum.
post #9144 of 11478
is your friend black?
post #9145 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

Dude, what the fuck? Sorry about your friend, but you're being way overly defensive.

In terms of how bullshit the cops/prosecutors are being, you have to consider it from their perspective. Your friend was found with an item that clearly can -- and I'm sure has been, by other people, in various contexts -- used as a weapon. It's a knife. So is a butcher's knife. A machete is a tool with a perfectly innocent primary use. So is an axe. So is a hammer. So is a screwdriver.
All can be pretty effective weapons as well. All have been used to kill people.
So when somebody is found to have one of those weapons on them, the cops/prosecutors have to make an assessment: given the totality of the circumstances, do we think it's more likely this person was carrying it for the purpose of having a weapon, or to use it for its primary purpose. Were they at a job site where one typically uses that tool? Or traveling to and from that job site? Or were they at a roller derby match, in dark alley, or in a crack house?
I obviously don't know what happened, but I can imagine it's possible that the circumstances that led to the cops or whoever finding the knife on him could be relevant. I.E., was he carrying it openly, or did he find himself in a situation where the cops concluded they needed to check him for weapons and found the knife in the process?

Just saw your response above. Yeah, I'd agree with you that those facts definitely weigh in favor of it being toward the bullshit side of the spectrum.
Follow Biscott's link and the related articles linked from there. It is actually a more interesting circumstance than you describe. I am not sure what the police version of the story is, but it seems like this is pretty abusive.
post #9146 of 11478
This is what your talking about, except his has a clip:


Quote:
All can be pretty effective weapons as well. All have been used to kill people.
So when somebody is found to have one of those weapons on them, the cops/prosecutors have to make an assessment: given the totality of the circumstances, do we think it's more likely this person was carrying it for the purpose of having a weapon, or to use it for its primary purpose. Were they at a job site where one typically uses that tool? Or traveling to and from that job site? Or were they at a roller derby match, in dark alley, or in a crack house?
I obviously don't know what happened, but I can imagine it's possible that the circumstances that led to the cops or whoever finding the knife on him could be relevant. I.E., was he carrying it openly, or did he find himself in a situation where the cops concluded they needed to check him for weapons and found the knife in the process?

Many objects have the capability to kill. Should everyone found with an object that may cause harm to another have to go through jail, bail and trial?
post #9147 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biscotti View Post

This is what your talking about, except his has a clip:


Many objects have the capability to kill. Should everyone found with an object that may cause harm to another have to go through jail, bail and trial?

No, of course not. But it's also not very workable to say that we can never consider anything a weapon if it as at least one non-violent purpose.
That's why it's a context-specific decision. Sounds like a really lame decision in this instance.
post #9148 of 11478

You will never, I say never, legislate yourself into safety. You can't outlaw everything and you can't write vague laws which give the police the power to overstep the bounds of propriety. I mean, you CAN, but you shouldn't. The solution is simple. If someone is not behaving in a way that is threatening, leave them alone. I don't care if they are carrying a rifle, a samurai sword, or a folding knife. If they aren't harming anyone leave them alone. Is it coincidence that black people are harassed for things like this more than white people? Probably not. 

post #9149 of 11478
After reading Bisco's link I would put forward that this "gravity knife" policy, as the article describes it, would indeed be something that sucks about NYC.
post #9150 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post

You will never, I say never, legislate yourself into safety. You can't outlaw everything and you can't write vague laws which give the police the power to overstep the bounds of propriety. I mean, you CAN, but you shouldn't. The solution is simple. If someone is not behaving in a way that is threatening, leave them alone. I don't care if they are carrying a rifle, a samurai sword, or a folding knife. If they aren't harming anyone leave them alone. Is it coincidence that black people are harassed for things like this more than white people? Probably not. 

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