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Reasons why New York Sucks - Page 576

post #8626 of 11478
Anybody witness this Metro North crash?

6 dead.
post #8627 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by archetypal_yuppie View Post

Sustainable does not mean what you think it means.



The real underlying problem in NYC real estate is not its price as much as the low quality of the properties. They should cost as much as they do, but be much nicer. This is the result of both rent control laws (which fix price and therefore make profitability a function of cost i.e. repairs) and regulations that get in the way of building and replacing the housing stock (making it impossible or ridiculously expensive to do so).

It makes sense for it to be expensive. Salaries are high, and all that car money gets substituted into apartment money.

Well it depends on what you value. Most people here aren't here because of the real estate, they are buying a neighborhood and an experience. I definitely agree with you that it should be expensive, but things like fit and finish aren't important to most middle class people who live here because it's not why they are here. Also space. I see no reason to have a giant, pristine place because I'm pretty much only home to sleep, that's it. I'm never home so I don't really care about certain things that people value elsewhere. The City is my living room.
post #8628 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenHero View Post

I wish I were poorer, so I could finally afford to live here.

I have a friend who recently got accepted and moved into public housing. The requirements are much more lax than I thought and it costs more to live there than I thought. They seem to value people with more kids in general, obviously, but the rent is 30% of your income, which for somebody with a lot of kids and low salary is a lot of money. My friend is an artist and makes about $30k per year and she got a place there, which, imo 30% of your $30k is a lot of your income. Then again she took it because it was in Chinatown right near where she grew up so she is close to her mom.

At 30% of your salary it would cost me more money to live in public housing than my current mortgage payments are.
post #8629 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by archetypal_yuppie View Post

The real underlying problem in NYC real estate is not its price as much as the low quality of the properties. They should cost as much as they do, but be much nicer.

Of course, pricing is driven by supply and demand and, as often happens when the government tries to "fix" markets, regulatory efforts to make housing cheap and nice have, in the end, made it expensive and crappy.

But to say they should cost as much as they do but be much nicer . . . well, that's the point. People living in NYC have come to accept what passes for housing stock in NYC. But people who don't live there are aghast at what you get for your money -- and I'm not just talking about in flyover country, either.

A lot of upper middle class people in NYC regularly put up with conditions that would have residents of Brazilian favelas in open revolt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Well it depends on what you value. Most people here aren't here because of the real estate, they are buying a neighborhood and an experience. I definitely agree with you that it should be expensive, but things like fit and finish aren't important to most middle class people who live here because it's not why they are here. Also space. I see no reason to have a giant, pristine place because I'm pretty much only home to sleep, that's it. I'm never home so I don't really care about certain things that people value elsewhere. The City is my living room.

This is the sort of rationalization that people in terrorist-prone areas make about the threat of suicide bombers. Next up: an explanation as to why rats are an important part of a healthy urban ecosystem.

Don't get me wrong. I quite like NY and a lot of what you say is true. But New Yorkers put up with quite a lot for the privilege of living there. Hopefully, I won't have to move there until I can afford one of those 30 million dollar apartments I keep hearing about.
post #8630 of 11478
I've been in Cambodia for the last two weeks and I can say what I see many people living like here New Yorkers have absolutely nothing to complain about. It is actually offensive that any middle class New Yorker does complain about their living situation. To think you need a $30 million apartment to feel comfortable explains so much about you. If a middle class person is willing to pay a sum of money for something that has rats then it is worth it for them, that's how a market works. Nobody is forcing a middle class person to live in New York City, you don't like it leave. It is that easy.

You're still missing the point of all NYC has to offer, which is why most people are here. Real estate values aren't tied directly to living quarters because there's more to living here than that. Sure, in the middle of nowhere maybe because that's all you have and it is what people value.
post #8631 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

I've been in Cambodia for the last two weeks and I can say what I see many people living like here New Yorkers have absolutely nothing to complain about. It is actually offensive that any middle class New Yorker does complain about their living situation. To think you need a $30 million apartment to feel comfortable explains so much about you. If a middle class person is willing to pay a sum of money for something that has rats then it is worth it for them, that's how a market works. Nobody is forcing a middle class person to live in New York City, you don't like it leave. It is that easy.

You're still missing the point of all NYC has to offer, which is why most people are here. Real estate values aren't tied directly to living quarters because there's more to living here than that. Sure, in the middle of nowhere maybe because that's all you have and it is what people value.

+1
post #8632 of 11478

Who steps out to check the car for damage after being caught between the gates on train track?

 

lefty

post #8633 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by lefty View Post

Who steps out to check the car for damage after being caught between the gates on train track?

lefty

Is that what happened?
baldy[1].gif
post #8634 of 11478

That's what they're saying.

 

lefty

post #8635 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by lefty View Post

That's what they're saying.

lefty

Just read some news reports. Wow. Woman is an idiot if that is what happened.
Cuomo is on Fox5 right now. He said that they are not sure right now....but that is just standard protocol until the have the NTSB report. He did say that the car was in the middle of the tracks when it was hit and in the middle 400ft down the tracks.
post #8636 of 11478
women drivers musicboohoo[1].gif
post #8637 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bounder View Post

But to say they should cost as much as they do but be much nicer . . . well, that's the point. People living in NYC have come to accept what passes for housing stock in NYC. But people who don't live there are aghast at what you get for your money -- and I'm not just talking about in flyover country, either.

A beer costs a lot more in a jazz club than in a dive bar. M&Ms cost more in a movie theater than at the bodega. Do you get my point? Prices are not only about the intrinsic value of the product/apartment but also about the utility one derives from the pleasure or convenience associated with the environment. When someone pays a lot of money for a crappy studio in a neighborhood they love, they're not doing it because they love the value that this particular studio is providing them. They're paying for the convenience of living exactly where they want to be - without commuting. They think that stepping out of their place and having everything right there is worth that sum of money. There's also plenty people who do not think that it is worth it, and either commute longer or simply live somewhere else. There's no sense of captivity - no one is oblivious to their situation or the choices they are making, contrary to what you may think. Most of us were not born in a NYC apartment, you know. We understand what else is out there. We choose not to go for that.
post #8638 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post


I have a friend who recently got accepted and moved into public housing. The requirements are much more lax than I thought and it costs more to live there than I thought. They seem to value people with more kids in general, obviously, but the rent is 30% of your income, which for somebody with a lot of kids and low salary is a lot of money. My friend is an artist and makes about $30k per year and she got a place there, which, imo 30% of your $30k is a lot of your income. Then again she took it because it was in Chinatown right near where she grew up so she is close to her mom.

At 30% of your salary it would cost me more money to live in public housing than my current mortgage payments are.

Are we talking about Confucius Plaza? 

post #8639 of 11478
I could go back to the suburban neighborhood where I grew up, buy a house with cash, and probably be able to take a job because I like it instead of because it paid well. The house would be 2-3x the size of my current home, with a big yard, etc. But then I'd be there instead of here.
post #8640 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Also space. I see no reason to have a giant, pristine place because I'm pretty much only home to sleep, that's it. I'm never home so I don't really care about certain things that people value elsewhere. The City is my living room.

This is exactly the opposite of me (probably due to the fact I'm a misanthrope.) I greatly enjoy spending time at my home and it's really my favorite place to be. Then again I'm also one of those people that view the hotel room as part of my vacation vs. those that view it only as a place to sleep.

Don't get me wrong, I go out often and have periods of extended gregariousness, but particularly on work nights I prefer to be home vs. anywhere else.
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