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Reasons why New York Sucks - Page 334

post #4996 of 7494
Thread Starter 
This is for Ken Rose.

All right. First, let me state outright a basic dilemma of internet debate with jackasses. They like to put you (me) in a lose-lose position. Keep explaining yourself, answering/refuting their “points,” and you are obsessed and can’t let it go. Try to let it go, and you are a moron who has been shown to have no response to the jackass’ devastating counter-attack. See how that works? So, let’s just stipulate that, since I have chosen to reply to your points, I am obsessed and can’t let it go.

Rumpel’s every argument was weak at best, almost a textbook case of how “debate” proceeds today on the Internet, or really anywhere.

The discussion was about “knock out game” and the question arose about how recent it all is and where it is happening, because it’s become big news only in recent weeks after several NYC attacks on Jews, apparently targeted precisely because they are Jews.

I pointed out that only the media attention is recent, the game has been around for years. There are cases going back to the early 1990s, but it seems to have really started to take off around 2007-8. That is when I became aware of it—not through the MSM, which then refused to cover or acknowledge it, but through blogs. There would occasionally be local stories that told the basic facts but always with important facts left out, above all the races of the victims and perps. The media prefers to say “youths” or “teens” when the perps are black and the victims white. Whereas they very quickly identify races in the comparatively (extremely) rare cases when the races are reversed.

So certain blogs began noticing and doing a little digging on their own and noticing the pattern. Victims also spoke out and, best of all, some perps began filming their attacks and posting the vids online. All this and more suggested a pattern:

-black perps
-white victims
-attacked from behind/blindsided
-sudden, no warning, not the result of an argument or anything
-no robbery
-victim and perps complete strangers
-punch to head or base of head/upper neck

Add to that the videos, testimony from certain apprehended perps and also the “hearsay” from people in the neighborhood who said that, indeed, they had heard of this thing called “knockout game” and/or the slightly different but related “polar bear hunting.”

The MSM still refused to discuss it and indeed saw its role as the opposite: to browbeat people out of noticing any patterns or similarities and to rule out of bounds any mention of “knockout game” and especially of “polar bear hunting” with its obvious racial overtones.

The reason is that such stories do not fit The Narrative. The Narrative is the Big Lie regarding race that the MSM and our entire corrupt intellectual culture works hard every day to shove down our throats. Boiled to its essence, The Narrative is: Blacks (and non-whites) are always victims of evil racist whites and of systemic racism, while whites--even the ones who think they are good anti-racist liberals--are always oppressors of non-whites.

Infinite examples of how The Narrative is constructed and maintained could be given. Trayvon should suffice. The MSM and the culturati made that the top national story for nearly a year and half, and stopped short of no level of mendacity to make sure that it fit The Narrative. Sometimes The Narrative requires the creation of a myth or martyr (Trayvon), sometimes it requires the suppression of facts (knockout game). The important factor is The Narrative itself.

As noted, after years, the MSM finally found that had no choice but to mention this. I will try to put this delicately, but part of the reason is that, while it is not acceptable to highlight a victim’s race when he is merely white (because whites cannot be victims according to The Narrative), it is OK and even obligatory when the victim is Jewish because Jews can be victims (for obvious reasons).

So now the MSM found itself in a bind. It had to mention these new Jewish victims, and even had to report that they were targeted because they were Jews (because some the perps on tape saying this). But it also had to rule out any possible connection to any other such attacks This cannot be allowed to be a trend because that would not fit The Narrative.

And enter Rumple. I mention the mere fact that the first I heard of all this was about 5 years ago in DC and Philly, and he leaps into action as an enforcer of The Narrative.

As an aside, it’s important to understand the changing role of the MSM in our time. It is no longer primarily to report the news or to disclose facts. It tried, for a while with some success, to be a suppressor of facts, but the window in which that role was viable has now almost completely closed. There are just (for now) too many other ways for information to disseminate. Outright suppression being for the time-being impossible, the MSM and intellerati have redefined their role as enforcers of The Narrative. They tell you what you can and cannot think, what conclusions it is and is not appropriate to draw based on the facts you find elsewhere. And, according to The Narrative, There Is No Knockout Game. Period.

Rumple, I presume, is not really aware that he is an enforcer of The Narrative. But one of the things I have witnessed firsthand over my lifetime is the way that everyone in what we now call the Blue Cities have taken it upon themselves to be enforcers. There is a conspiracy (subject for another post) but most of the mule’s work is done simply by people acting voluntarily. “You can’t say that!” And the reason for this, or a reason, is what I call “opinion morality.” In elite Blue America, virtue has been almost completely replaced by opinion as the barometer of a person’s moral worth. That’s not to say virtue is not practiced; it often is and the UMC are nothing if not hypocrites: disorder for thee, order for me. The point is that what now defines you as a Good Person in NY, DC, SF, etc. are not practice of the moral virtues but the opinions you hold on those issues of the day that the intellerati deem of paramount importance. What is your position on “gay marriage”? For? Fine, you are Good Person. Against? You are a bigot and hence bad. The Narrative is part of this. It’s what makes so many people willing enforcers: it’s a way of advertising your goodness.

So, to return to Rumple, he jumps in, does a snarky drive-by, and gets the facts wrong. This is pointed out. Instead of simply acknowledging his error, he doubles, triples and quadruples down repeatedly.

Some highlights:
-I mentioned A-M and CH in DC as transitional areas typical of where this has been happening. He says, no, impossible because A-M has high property values. This is a stupid argument. High values correlate with lower crime but not in a 1:1 way. A-M is closer to high crime areas than other parts of NW and thus has always had higher crime than (say) Woodley. Also, A-M is adjacent to a few much higher crime areas, which is exactly where crimes like this happen. That is, not in the heart of the UES, which is high income for miles in all directions, but in areas that border worse areas.
-He then tried to make great hay of the fact that I mentioned A-M but did not cite a case from A-M. This is also, plainly, stupid on a number of levels. First, I said that I became aware of this thing happening in areas “like” AM that were gentrifying and border. Second, I cited two cases which I noted were high profile but also noted that there were many others that were not. I do remember reading about this happening in A-M. R’s tactic—which is a common tactic in intellectually dishonest Internet debates—was to say “I deny unless you show me the crime blotter.” Which if done, the subject is merely changed to “This doesn’t count in that category.” The point is, the standards are changed and the goal posts moved with every new piece of evidence provided.
-I then noted that a small number (two, that I know of) victims have been black. He idiotically tried to spin this as complete vindication of his position of denial. So, again, he further affirms that the attacks are real, but the fact that two out of about hundreds reported attacks. This is “proof” of nothing. Perhaps those kids couldn’t find a white victim at that moment. Perhaps they didn’t personally care that much. The point is, when the races are reversed, the ratio doesn’t have to be even close to 100:1 for there to be pattern. But in this case, 2 exceptions completely disprove the trend. Yeah, right.
-Then he just lapses into, and never emerges from, ridiculous straw manning—I have claimed that DC is a crime-ridden hell hole and such. All of which he just made up out of desperation.

So, the points you cite as his “good points” are not good points at all. There IS a nationwide pattern of crimes that have occurred in dozens of cities, DC being one of them. There IS something called “knockout game” that the perps themselves have defined and described. He has not shown that there have been only 3 attacks in DC; he has simply chosen to pretend that only the three he has mentioned count. There was no content to any of his replies at all.

Which is the way of nearly all such “debates” today, sadly. It’s yet another sign of the corruption of our times. There is no “comity.” There is no possibility of discourse or dialogue. The argument proceeded in bad faith, rife with intellectual dishonesty, from the beginning. He was here only as an enforcer of The Narrative. Likely an unwitting enforcer, but that really doesn’t make it any better, for in what universe can it be a good thing to be all at once ignorant, a bully, and an automaton?
post #4997 of 7494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

This is for Ken Rose.

All right. First, let me state outright a basic dilemma of internet debate with jackasses. They like to put you (me) in a lose-lose position. Keep explaining yourself, answering/refuting their “points,” and you are obsessed and can’t let it go. Try to let it go, and you are a moron who has been shown to have no response to the jackass’ devastating counter-attack. See how that works? So, let’s just stipulate that, since I have chosen to reply to your points, I am obsessed and can’t let it go.

Rumpel’s every argument was weak at best, almost a textbook case of how “debate” proceeds today on the Internet, or really anywhere.

The discussion was about “knock out game” and the question arose about how recent it all is and where it is happening, because it’s become big news only in recent weeks after several NYC attacks on Jews, apparently targeted precisely because they are Jews.

I pointed out that only the media attention is recent, the game has been around for years. There are cases going back to the early 1990s, but it seems to have really started to take off around 2007-8. That is when I became aware of it—not through the MSM, which then refused to cover or acknowledge it, but through blogs. There would occasionally be local stories that told the basic facts but always with important facts left out, above all the races of the victims and perps. The media prefers to say “youths” or “teens” when the perps are black and the victims white. Whereas they very quickly identify races in the comparatively (extremely) rare cases when the races are reversed.

So certain blogs began noticing and doing a little digging on their own and noticing the pattern. Victims also spoke out and, best of all, some perps began filming their attacks and posting the vids online. All this and more suggested a pattern:

-black perps
-white victims
-attacked from behind/blindsided
-sudden, no warning, not the result of an argument or anything
-no robbery
-victim and perps complete strangers
-punch to head or base of head/upper neck

Add to that the videos, testimony from certain apprehended perps and also the “hearsay” from people in the neighborhood who said that, indeed, they had heard of this thing called “knockout game” and/or the slightly different but related “polar bear hunting.”

The MSM still refused to discuss it and indeed saw its role as the opposite: to browbeat people out of noticing any patterns or similarities and to rule out of bounds any mention of “knockout game” and especially of “polar bear hunting” with its obvious racial overtones.

The reason is that such stories do not fit The Narrative. The Narrative is the Big Lie regarding race that the MSM and our entire corrupt intellectual culture works hard every day to shove down our throats. Boiled to its essence, The Narrative is: Blacks (and non-whites) are always victims of evil racist whites and of systemic racism, while whites--even the ones who think they are good anti-racist liberals--are always oppressors of non-whites.

Infinite examples of how The Narrative is constructed and maintained could be given. Trayvon should suffice. The MSM and the culturati made that the top national story for nearly a year and half, and stopped short of no level of mendacity to make sure that it fit The Narrative. Sometimes The Narrative requires the creation of a myth or martyr (Trayvon), sometimes it requires the suppression of facts (knockout game). The important factor is The Narrative itself.

As noted, after years, the MSM finally found that had no choice but to mention this. I will try to put this delicately, but part of the reason is that, while it is not acceptable to highlight a victim’s race when he is merely white (because whites cannot be victims according to The Narrative), it is OK and even obligatory when the victim is Jewish because Jews can be victims (for obvious reasons).

So now the MSM found itself in a bind. It had to mention these new Jewish victims, and even had to report that they were targeted because they were Jews (because some the perps on tape saying this). But it also had to rule out any possible connection to any other such attacks This cannot be allowed to be a trend because that would not fit The Narrative.

And enter Rumple. I mention the mere fact that the first I heard of all this was about 5 years ago in DC and Philly, and he leaps into action as an enforcer of The Narrative.

As an aside, it’s important to understand the changing role of the MSM in our time. It is no longer primarily to report the news or to disclose facts. It tried, for a while with some success, to be a suppressor of facts, but the window in which that role was viable has now almost completely closed. There are just (for now) too many other ways for information to disseminate. Outright suppression being for the time-being impossible, the MSM and intellerati have redefined their role as enforcers of The Narrative. They tell you what you can and cannot think, what conclusions it is and is not appropriate to draw based on the facts you find elsewhere. And, according to The Narrative, There Is No Knockout Game. Period.

Rumple, I presume, is not really aware that he is an enforcer of The Narrative. But one of the things I have witnessed firsthand over my lifetime is the way that everyone in what we now call the Blue Cities have taken it upon themselves to be enforcers. There is a conspiracy (subject for another post) but most of the mule’s work is done simply by people acting voluntarily. “You can’t say that!” And the reason for this, or a reason, is what I call “opinion morality.” In elite Blue America, virtue has been almost completely replaced by opinion as the barometer of a person’s moral worth. That’s not to say virtue is not practiced; it often is and the UMC are nothing if not hypocrites: disorder for thee, order for me. The point is that what now defines you as a Good Person in NY, DC, SF, etc. are not practice of the moral virtues but the opinions you hold on those issues of the day that the intellerati deem of paramount importance. What is your position on “gay marriage”? For? Fine, you are Good Person. Against? You are a bigot and hence bad. The Narrative is part of this. It’s what makes so many people willing enforcers: it’s a way of advertising your goodness.

So, to return to Rumple, he jumps in, does a snarky drive-by, and gets the facts wrong. This is pointed out. Instead of simply acknowledging his error, he doubles, triples and quadruples down repeatedly.

Some highlights:
-I mentioned A-M and CH in DC as transitional areas typical of where this has been happening. He says, no, impossible because A-M has high property values. This is a stupid argument. High values correlate with lower crime but not in a 1:1 way. A-M is closer to high crime areas than other parts of NW and thus has always had higher crime than (say) Woodley. Also, A-M is adjacent to a few much higher crime areas, which is exactly where crimes like this happen. That is, not in the heart of the UES, which is high income for miles in all directions, but in areas that border worse areas.
-He then tried to make great hay of the fact that I mentioned A-M but did not cite a case from A-M. This is also, plainly, stupid on a number of levels. First, I said that I became aware of this thing happening in areas “like” AM that were gentrifying and border. Second, I cited two cases which I noted were high profile but also noted that there were many others that were not. I do remember reading about this happening in A-M. R’s tactic—which is a common tactic in intellectually dishonest Internet debates—was to say “I deny unless you show me the crime blotter.” Which if done, the subject is merely changed to “This doesn’t count in that category.” The point is, the standards are changed and the goal posts moved with every new piece of evidence provided.
-I then noted that a small number (two, that I know of) victims have been black. He idiotically tried to spin this as complete vindication of his position of denial. So, again, he further affirms that the attacks are real, but the fact that two out of about hundreds reported attacks. This is “proof” of nothing. Perhaps those kids couldn’t find a white victim at that moment. Perhaps they didn’t personally care that much. The point is, when the races are reversed, the ratio doesn’t have to be even close to 100:1 for there to be pattern. But in this case, 2 exceptions completely disprove the trend. Yeah, right.
-Then he just lapses into, and never emerges from, ridiculous straw manning—I have claimed that DC is a crime-ridden hell hole and such. All of which he just made up out of desperation.

So, the points you cite as his “good points” are not good points at all. There IS a nationwide pattern of crimes that have occurred in dozens of cities, DC being one of them. There IS something called “knockout game” that the perps themselves have defined and described. He has not shown that there have been only 3 attacks in DC; he has simply chosen to pretend that only the three he has mentioned count. There was no content to any of his replies at all.

Which is the way of nearly all such “debates” today, sadly. It’s yet another sign of the corruption of our times. There is no “comity.” There is no possibility of discourse or dialogue. The argument proceeded in bad faith, rife with intellectual dishonesty, from the beginning. He was here only as an enforcer of The Narrative. Likely an unwitting enforcer, but that really doesn’t make it any better, for in what universe can it be a good thing to be all at once ignorant, a bully, and an automaton?
Manton, this is a (mostly) civil and thoughtful discussion, and I'm glad you posted it. I probably agree with more of it than I disagree with, at least after applying a hyperbole discount. But I do have to note that when I encounter statements like the highlighted one, it immediately becomes difficult to take any the post seriously. (Which is not to suggest that you or anyone else should give a shit about what I do or don't take seriously - it's just a gratuitous observation for whatever it's worth.)
post #4998 of 7494
Thread Starter 
Really, well, I live with it every day. PC has utterly, completely taken over the workplace. That triumph was complete probably 10 years ago. What I have noticed more recently is that it's now part of interpersonal relations as well. Forget about simlpy volunteering information counter to The Narrative. Only a fool doesn't know that's suicide. So those who disagree learn to just politely avoid certain subjects. E.g., opinion in Manhattan re: Trayvon was universal. Trayvon=doe-eyed innocent, Zim="white hispanic" racist thug murderer, whole incident=further proof of systemic white racism. If you were to challenge that, the mixture of responses would rage from furious denunciations of you to, at the softest, a rebuke that it's impolite to stir "controversy." Never mind the fact that bringing up The Narrative in the first place is never "controversial," only questioning it or challenging it is.

But lately it's gotten worse. People now like to steer conversations into "controversial" topics to test others' bone fides. Is this a "good person" or not? Let's change the subject to taxpayer funding for Transgender Bathrooms and see what he says!

In any case, what R did was a textbook example of what I wrote. He came to this discussion with nothing. Nothing but falsehood. He saw a threat to the narrative and he pounced.

And, if I may suggest, why don't you search your brain for the most heterodox thought you currently hold, one that is the most out of step with your LA enviornment, and test it out in a circumstance unlikely to harm your career? It can't be about something technical like tax policy, but something hot button like race, immigration or feminism. See how it goes.
post #4999 of 7494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenRose View Post

I donno, I think the unlucky idiot got his points across too. Didn't realize that this knockout game had been going on for several years though.
Oh, well, do tell. I can (possibly) restrain myself to respond to you calmly. I did so with sugarbutch, even though he wears two earrings!

That's because you think I'm a swell guy. nod[1].gif
post #5000 of 7494
Thread Starter 
you may be but I still hate the pirate look. Arr, matey.
post #5001 of 7494

Will somebody please wake me up when this thread goes back to bitching about break dancing on the subway?

post #5002 of 7494

some lady had her butt exposed in union square last night 

she performing something and exposing herself to try and get a bit more money

 

i decided to just hurry along to my train since she had a pancake booty

post #5003 of 7494
back on track
post #5004 of 7494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

Really, well, I live with it every day. PC has utterly, completely taken over the workplace. That triumph was complete probably 10 years ago. What I have noticed more recently is that it's now part of interpersonal relations as well. Forget about simlpy volunteering information counter to The Narrative. Only a fool doesn't know that's suicide. So those who disagree learn to just politely avoid certain subjects. E.g., opinion in Manhattan re: Trayvon was universal. Trayvon=doe-eyed innocent, Zim="white hispanic" racist thug murderer, whole incident=further proof of systemic white racism. If you were to challenge that, the mixture of responses would rage from furious denunciations of you to, at the softest, a rebuke that it's impolite to stir "controversy." Never mind the fact that bringing up The Narrative in the first place is never "controversial," only questioning it or challenging it is.

But lately it's gotten worse. People now like to steer conversations into "controversial" topics to test others' bone fides. Is this a "good person" or not? Let's change the subject to taxpayer funding for Transgender Bathrooms and see what he says!

In any case, what R did was a textbook example of what I wrote. He came to this discussion with nothing. Nothing but falsehood. He saw a threat to the narrative and he pounced.

And, if I may suggest, why don't you search your brain for the most heterodox thought you currently hold, one that is the most out of step with your LA environment, and test it out in a circumstance unlikely to harm your career? It can't be about something technical like tax policy, but something hot button like race, immigration or feminism. See how it goes.

rolleyes.gif
I'm not sure why people always assume I'm trying to make a broader point than I really am. I agree that the dynamic you're describing exists to a certain extent. I'm just suggesting it's not quite as universal as your post claims. The single sentence I highlighted in your earlier post posited that everyone in the "Blue Cities" is an enforcer of this orthodoxy. That's plainly not the case, and it's silly to act as though such a statement could be literally true. (As I said, mine is a pretty narrow point.) Bemoaning the scarcity or absence of constructive discourse or dialogue rings a bit hollow when swathed in overbroad hyperbole that posits a boolean division between the lonely keepers of truth and the teeming hordes of conspirators and dupes.

For what it's worth, while I can't speak to what was happening in New York, opinions in Los Angeles (and even in the mostly liberal, Hollywood-related office where I work) were far from uniform with respect to the Trayvon/Zimmerman thing. More generally, I am (my professional connection to the entertainment industry notwithstanding) not a very creative thinker, so my most heterodox opinions probably aren't very heterodox at all. But as a rule I don't feel particularly inhibited from expressing them in social settings. Does that mean I sometimes get negative reactions from stupid people who believe there is only one morally correct way of thinking about various issues? Of course. But would that be a fair characterization of everyone I encounter in Los Angeles? Not at all.
Edited by lawyerdad - 12/4/13 at 3:35pm
post #5005 of 7494
Holy shit, did not expect such a response. It clearly took time, and I appreciate what you said and your thought process. (I also appreciate not being called names or a liberal). Perhaps I should have read through the 100 posts a little slower. PM you in a bit with something else
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

This is for Ken Rose.

All right. First, let me state outright a basic dilemma of internet debate with jackasses. They like to put you (me) in a lose-lose position. Keep explaining yourself, answering/refuting their “points,” and you are obsessed and can’t let it go. Try to let it go, and you are a moron who has been shown to have no response to the jackass’ devastating counter-attack. See how that works? So, let’s just stipulate that, since I have chosen to reply to your points, I am obsessed and can’t let it go.

Rumpel’s every argument was weak at best, almost a textbook case of how “debate” proceeds today on the Internet, or really anywhere.

The discussion was about “knock out game” and the question arose about how recent it all is and where it is happening, because it’s become big news only in recent weeks after several NYC attacks on Jews, apparently targeted precisely because they are Jews.

I pointed out that only the media attention is recent, the game has been around for years. There are cases going back to the early 1990s, but it seems to have really started to take off around 2007-8. That is when I became aware of it—not through the MSM, which then refused to cover or acknowledge it, but through blogs. There would occasionally be local stories that told the basic facts but always with important facts left out, above all the races of the victims and perps. The media prefers to say “youths” or “teens” when the perps are black and the victims white. Whereas they very quickly identify races in the comparatively (extremely) rare cases when the races are reversed.

So certain blogs began noticing and doing a little digging on their own and noticing the pattern. Victims also spoke out and, best of all, some perps began filming their attacks and posting the vids online. All this and more suggested a pattern:

-black perps
-white victims
-attacked from behind/blindsided
-sudden, no warning, not the result of an argument or anything
-no robbery
-victim and perps complete strangers
-punch to head or base of head/upper neck

Add to that the videos, testimony from certain apprehended perps and also the “hearsay” from people in the neighborhood who said that, indeed, they had heard of this thing called “knockout game” and/or the slightly different but related “polar bear hunting.”

The MSM still refused to discuss it and indeed saw its role as the opposite: to browbeat people out of noticing any patterns or similarities and to rule out of bounds any mention of “knockout game” and especially of “polar bear hunting” with its obvious racial overtones.

The reason is that such stories do not fit The Narrative. The Narrative is the Big Lie regarding race that the MSM and our entire corrupt intellectual culture works hard every day to shove down our throats. Boiled to its essence, The Narrative is: Blacks (and non-whites) are always victims of evil racist whites and of systemic racism, while whites--even the ones who think they are good anti-racist liberals--are always oppressors of non-whites.

Infinite examples of how The Narrative is constructed and maintained could be given. Trayvon should suffice. The MSM and the culturati made that the top national story for nearly a year and half, and stopped short of no level of mendacity to make sure that it fit The Narrative. Sometimes The Narrative requires the creation of a myth or martyr (Trayvon), sometimes it requires the suppression of facts (knockout game). The important factor is The Narrative itself.

As noted, after years, the MSM finally found that had no choice but to mention this. I will try to put this delicately, but part of the reason is that, while it is not acceptable to highlight a victim’s race when he is merely white (because whites cannot be victims according to The Narrative), it is OK and even obligatory when the victim is Jewish because Jews can be victims (for obvious reasons).

So now the MSM found itself in a bind. It had to mention these new Jewish victims, and even had to report that they were targeted because they were Jews (because some the perps on tape saying this). But it also had to rule out any possible connection to any other such attacks This cannot be allowed to be a trend because that would not fit The Narrative.

And enter Rumple. I mention the mere fact that the first I heard of all this was about 5 years ago in DC and Philly, and he leaps into action as an enforcer of The Narrative.

As an aside, it’s important to understand the changing role of the MSM in our time. It is no longer primarily to report the news or to disclose facts. It tried, for a while with some success, to be a suppressor of facts, but the window in which that role was viable has now almost completely closed. There are just (for now) too many other ways for information to disseminate. Outright suppression being for the time-being impossible, the MSM and intellerati have redefined their role as enforcers of The Narrative. They tell you what you can and cannot think, what conclusions it is and is not appropriate to draw based on the facts you find elsewhere. And, according to The Narrative, There Is No Knockout Game. Period.

Rumple, I presume, is not really aware that he is an enforcer of The Narrative. But one of the things I have witnessed firsthand over my lifetime is the way that everyone in what we now call the Blue Cities have taken it upon themselves to be enforcers. There is a conspiracy (subject for another post) but most of the mule’s work is done simply by people acting voluntarily. “You can’t say that!” And the reason for this, or a reason, is what I call “opinion morality.” In elite Blue America, virtue has been almost completely replaced by opinion as the barometer of a person’s moral worth. That’s not to say virtue is not practiced; it often is and the UMC are nothing if not hypocrites: disorder for thee, order for me. The point is that what now defines you as a Good Person in NY, DC, SF, etc. are not practice of the moral virtues but the opinions you hold on those issues of the day that the intellerati deem of paramount importance. What is your position on “gay marriage”? For? Fine, you are Good Person. Against? You are a bigot and hence bad. The Narrative is part of this. It’s what makes so many people willing enforcers: it’s a way of advertising your goodness.

So, to return to Rumple, he jumps in, does a snarky drive-by, and gets the facts wrong. This is pointed out. Instead of simply acknowledging his error, he doubles, triples and quadruples down repeatedly.

Some highlights:
-I mentioned A-M and CH in DC as transitional areas typical of where this has been happening. He says, no, impossible because A-M has high property values. This is a stupid argument. High values correlate with lower crime but not in a 1:1 way. A-M is closer to high crime areas than other parts of NW and thus has always had higher crime than (say) Woodley. Also, A-M is adjacent to a few much higher crime areas, which is exactly where crimes like this happen. That is, not in the heart of the UES, which is high income for miles in all directions, but in areas that border worse areas.
-He then tried to make great hay of the fact that I mentioned A-M but did not cite a case from A-M. This is also, plainly, stupid on a number of levels. First, I said that I became aware of this thing happening in areas “like” AM that were gentrifying and border. Second, I cited two cases which I noted were high profile but also noted that there were many others that were not. I do remember reading about this happening in A-M. R’s tactic—which is a common tactic in intellectually dishonest Internet debates—was to say “I deny unless you show me the crime blotter.” Which if done, the subject is merely changed to “This doesn’t count in that category.” The point is, the standards are changed and the goal posts moved with every new piece of evidence provided.
-I then noted that a small number (two, that I know of) victims have been black. He idiotically tried to spin this as complete vindication of his position of denial. So, again, he further affirms that the attacks are real, but the fact that two out of about hundreds reported attacks. This is “proof” of nothing. Perhaps those kids couldn’t find a white victim at that moment. Perhaps they didn’t personally care that much. The point is, when the races are reversed, the ratio doesn’t have to be even close to 100:1 for there to be pattern. But in this case, 2 exceptions completely disprove the trend. Yeah, right.
-Then he just lapses into, and never emerges from, ridiculous straw manning—I have claimed that DC is a crime-ridden hell hole and such. All of which he just made up out of desperation.

So, the points you cite as his “good points” are not good points at all. There IS a nationwide pattern of crimes that have occurred in dozens of cities, DC being one of them. There IS something called “knockout game” that the perps themselves have defined and described. He has not shown that there have been only 3 attacks in DC; he has simply chosen to pretend that only the three he has mentioned count. There was no content to any of his replies at all.

Which is the way of nearly all such “debates” today, sadly. It’s yet another sign of the corruption of our times. There is no “comity.” There is no possibility of discourse or dialogue. The argument proceeded in bad faith, rife with intellectual dishonesty, from the beginning. He was here only as an enforcer of The Narrative. Likely an unwitting enforcer, but that really doesn’t make it any better, for in what universe can it be a good thing to be all at once ignorant, a bully, and an automaton?
post #5006 of 7494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

This is for Ken Rose.

All right. First, let me state outright a basic dilemma of internet debate with jackasses. They like to put you (me) in a lose-lose position. Keep explaining yourself, answering/refuting their “points,” and you are obsessed and can’t let it go. Try to let it go, and you are a moron who has been shown to have no response to the jackass’ devastating counter-attack. See how that works? So, let’s just stipulate that, since I have chosen to reply to your points, I am obsessed and can’t let it go.

Rumpel’s every argument was weak at best, almost a textbook case of how “debate” proceeds today on the Internet, or really anywhere.

The discussion was about “knock out game” and the question arose about how recent it all is and where it is happening, because it’s become big news only in recent weeks after several NYC attacks on Jews, apparently targeted precisely because they are Jews.

I pointed out that only the media attention is recent, the game has been around for years. There are cases going back to the early 1990s, but it seems to have really started to take off around 2007-8. That is when I became aware of it—not through the MSM, which then refused to cover or acknowledge it, but through blogs. There would occasionally be local stories that told the basic facts but always with important facts left out, above all the races of the victims and perps. The media prefers to say “youths” or “teens” when the perps are black and the victims white. Whereas they very quickly identify races in the comparatively (extremely) rare cases when the races are reversed.

So certain blogs began noticing and doing a little digging on their own and noticing the pattern. Victims also spoke out and, best of all, some perps began filming their attacks and posting the vids online. All this and more suggested a pattern:

-black perps
-white victims
-attacked from behind/blindsided
-sudden, no warning, not the result of an argument or anything
-no robbery
-victim and perps complete strangers
-punch to head or base of head/upper neck

Add to that the videos, testimony from certain apprehended perps and also the “hearsay” from people in the neighborhood who said that, indeed, they had heard of this thing called “knockout game” and/or the slightly different but related “polar bear hunting.”

The MSM still refused to discuss it and indeed saw its role as the opposite: to browbeat people out of noticing any patterns or similarities and to rule out of bounds any mention of “knockout game” and especially of “polar bear hunting” with its obvious racial overtones.

The reason is that such stories do not fit The Narrative. The Narrative is the Big Lie regarding race that the MSM and our entire corrupt intellectual culture works hard every day to shove down our throats. Boiled to its essence, The Narrative is: Blacks (and non-whites) are always victims of evil racist whites and of systemic racism, while whites--even the ones who think they are good anti-racist liberals--are always oppressors of non-whites.

Infinite examples of how The Narrative is constructed and maintained could be given. Trayvon should suffice. The MSM and the culturati made that the top national story for nearly a year and half, and stopped short of no level of mendacity to make sure that it fit The Narrative. Sometimes The Narrative requires the creation of a myth or martyr (Trayvon), sometimes it requires the suppression of facts (knockout game). The important factor is The Narrative itself.

As noted, after years, the MSM finally found that had no choice but to mention this. I will try to put this delicately, but part of the reason is that, while it is not acceptable to highlight a victim’s race when he is merely white (because whites cannot be victims according to The Narrative), it is OK and even obligatory when the victim is Jewish because Jews can be victims (for obvious reasons).

So now the MSM found itself in a bind. It had to mention these new Jewish victims, and even had to report that they were targeted because they were Jews (because some the perps on tape saying this). But it also had to rule out any possible connection to any other such attacks This cannot be allowed to be a trend because that would not fit The Narrative.

And enter Rumple. I mention the mere fact that the first I heard of all this was about 5 years ago in DC and Philly, and he leaps into action as an enforcer of The Narrative.

As an aside, it’s important to understand the changing role of the MSM in our time. It is no longer primarily to report the news or to disclose facts. It tried, for a while with some success, to be a suppressor of facts, but the window in which that role was viable has now almost completely closed. There are just (for now) too many other ways for information to disseminate. Outright suppression being for the time-being impossible, the MSM and intellerati have redefined their role as enforcers of The Narrative. They tell you what you can and cannot think, what conclusions it is and is not appropriate to draw based on the facts you find elsewhere. And, according to The Narrative, There Is No Knockout Game. Period.

Rumple, I presume, is not really aware that he is an enforcer of The Narrative. But one of the things I have witnessed firsthand over my lifetime is the way that everyone in what we now call the Blue Cities have taken it upon themselves to be enforcers. There is a conspiracy (subject for another post) but most of the mule’s work is done simply by people acting voluntarily. “You can’t say that!” And the reason for this, or a reason, is what I call “opinion morality.” In elite Blue America, virtue has been almost completely replaced by opinion as the barometer of a person’s moral worth. That’s not to say virtue is not practiced; it often is and the UMC are nothing if not hypocrites: disorder for thee, order for me. The point is that what now defines you as a Good Person in NY, DC, SF, etc. are not practice of the moral virtues but the opinions you hold on those issues of the day that the intellerati deem of paramount importance. What is your position on “gay marriage”? For? Fine, you are Good Person. Against? You are a bigot and hence bad. The Narrative is part of this. It’s what makes so many people willing enforcers: it’s a way of advertising your goodness.

So, to return to Rumple, he jumps in, does a snarky drive-by, and gets the facts wrong. This is pointed out. Instead of simply acknowledging his error, he doubles, triples and quadruples down repeatedly.

Some highlights:
-I mentioned A-M and CH in DC as transitional areas typical of where this has been happening. He says, no, impossible because A-M has high property values. This is a stupid argument. High values correlate with lower crime but not in a 1:1 way. A-M is closer to high crime areas than other parts of NW and thus has always had higher crime than (say) Woodley. Also, A-M is adjacent to a few much higher crime areas, which is exactly where crimes like this happen. That is, not in the heart of the UES, which is high income for miles in all directions, but in areas that border worse areas.
-He then tried to make great hay of the fact that I mentioned A-M but did not cite a case from A-M. This is also, plainly, stupid on a number of levels. First, I said that I became aware of this thing happening in areas “like” AM that were gentrifying and border. Second, I cited two cases which I noted were high profile but also noted that there were many others that were not. I do remember reading about this happening in A-M. R’s tactic—which is a common tactic in intellectually dishonest Internet debates—was to say “I deny unless you show me the crime blotter.” Which if done, the subject is merely changed to “This doesn’t count in that category.” The point is, the standards are changed and the goal posts moved with every new piece of evidence provided.
-I then noted that a small number (two, that I know of) victims have been black. He idiotically tried to spin this as complete vindication of his position of denial. So, again, he further affirms that the attacks are real, but the fact that two out of about hundreds reported attacks. This is “proof” of nothing. Perhaps those kids couldn’t find a white victim at that moment. Perhaps they didn’t personally care that much. The point is, when the races are reversed, the ratio doesn’t have to be even close to 100:1 for there to be pattern. But in this case, 2 exceptions completely disprove the trend. Yeah, right.
-Then he just lapses into, and never emerges from, ridiculous straw manning—I have claimed that DC is a crime-ridden hell hole and such. All of which he just made up out of desperation.

So, the points you cite as his “good points” are not good points at all. There IS a nationwide pattern of crimes that have occurred in dozens of cities, DC being one of them. There IS something called “knockout game” that the perps themselves have defined and described. He has not shown that there have been only 3 attacks in DC; he has simply chosen to pretend that only the three he has mentioned count. There was no content to any of his replies at all.

Which is the way of nearly all such “debates” today, sadly. It’s yet another sign of the corruption of our times. There is no “comity.” There is no possibility of discourse or dialogue. The argument proceeded in bad faith, rife with intellectual dishonesty, from the beginning. He was here only as an enforcer of The Narrative. Likely an unwitting enforcer, but that really doesn’t make it any better, for in what universe can it be a good thing to be all at once ignorant, a bully, and an automaton?

 

The fact remains that you haven't defended your initial statement. 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manton View Post

A decade, hmmm, I first heard of it maybe 5 years ago. Seemed then to be big in the "gentrifying" borderline areas of DC and Philly.

 

If it were such a big problem in DC since 2008 surely there would have been some type of evidence: news articles, interviews, police reports, etc.   It seems you could only find 3 examples of this type of assault in DC: one dating back to 2011 and the other 2 happened only 2 weeks ago. I wouldn't be surprised if the assaults from last month were related since they were only a day apart.  But the one in 2011 that happened off of North Capitol & New York Avenue?  How does that fit into your theory Columbia Heights/Adams Morgan theory?  I just don't see a pattern from 3 assaults separated by 2 years.  Yet you insist that these things happen all of the time in Adams Morgan and Columbia Heights.  Should we just take your word as gospel because you said that you lived in DC for a short period of time in the past?  Show your work or retract your statement.  Not a hard choice http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243/Colinstap/avatars/bth_confused-smiley-013.gif

 

BTW:  borderline areas of DC would be Trinidad, H Street Corridor (north of Capitol Hill heading towards Benning Road) or even the Hillcrest area. Adams Morgan and Columbia heights are too centrally located to be considered borderline.

post #5007 of 7494
One of my former partners used to describe certain opposing counsel as having "a keen instinct for the capillary."
post #5008 of 7494
I have coconut sized testicles.
post #5009 of 7494
You know why New York sucks? The guy in line next to me at the post office watching rap videos on Youtube with no headphones at full volume.

Also the fact that in my neighborhood, bulletproof glass is necessary at the post office.
post #5010 of 7494
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooker4186 View Post

Also the fact that in my neighborhood, bulletproof glass is necessary at the post office.

stamps be increasin' in price.


there's also bulletproof glass at the Popeye's Chicken in Harlem.
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