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Advantages of a $1000 Pair of Shoes - Page 4

post #46 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petepan View Post

Not only am I stating facts, I am not stating anything new which are not readily apparent to any observer of the worlds fastest growing market. You should also read up definition of racism. My comments apply to people from a geographic location, which is China, and not aimed at people of a particular race eg Chinese, of which, you may like to know, I am also one.

That's great. Try not to be so self-deprecating. Perpetuating these stereotypes is not good, and frankly tiresome.
post #47 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by timotune View Post


that's not true. Carmina and Meermin are not related. It's like Puma and Adidas.

weren't they brothers?

post #48 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnnamedPlayer View Post

weren't they brothers?

yes.
post #49 of 415
Yes.
post #50 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrybrowne View Post

That's great. Try not to be so self-deprecating. Perpetuating these stereotypes is not good, and frankly tiresome.

No one is being self deprecating, just as no one was being racist. Kind sir, the next time you talk down on me again, you will not receive a response as civil as this, so let it rest while you are still ahead.
post #51 of 415
There is some bullshit floating around.

My OPINION:

1. Alden shoes are not attractive. They are blobby as hell and the quality is not measurably superior to AE, although I will agree that some of their leathers are better. At the price point, I don't give them a first thought, much less a second.

2. Meermin. An upstart that has promise. But, we are talking about chinese made shoes here and the quality control is seemingly lacking. From what i've seen, you've got about a 1 in 3 chance that your shoes may have a noticeable defect. Yes, the prices are good for handwelted shoes. Will this handwelting benefit the vast majority of users...probably not. To put Meermin in the same league as carmina or C&J is simply not correct.

The only benefit I see to meermin is that they offer a MTO service for 100 euro...and of course if you like the styling.

3. As much as some people like to say the difference between a benchgrade C&J and an EG/JL is "pretty big", I don't see it. I've worn EGs and have a few C&J benchgrades. Is the finishing a little nicer, the sole work better, and the leather quality a bit nicer, sure. What was the end result while wearing....not much...they both look great, wear well, and shine up nicely. If you spend your days examining your shoes up close, you may get value from these differences, but to the average SF user, the difference is academic. We are already talking about what, the top 1-3% of shoes made?
post #52 of 415
Fit is indeed paramount and there is no value in investing even one dollar on a pair of shoes that don't fit. Doesn't matter if it is EG or AE.

Meermin has seemingly become the new darling of SF in that it delivers a quality product at a great price point. But I have a question. Reading the Meermin thread there have been quite a number of major flaws occurring, like heels separating or falling off. There are quality control issues with any product but how does this compare to other brands. In relative terms does Meermin seem to have more major flaws or is this just a blip because of their recent popularity and people posting a great deal?

How often are people encountering major problems with the higher end brands?

AE and Alden seem to have variable quality issues with finishing like stitching.

Vass? Other than issues with inconsistent sizing how often are major quality control issues reported here?

Carmina and C&J experience seem to be positive with the only difference separating them from EG and JL being a perceptible difference in the esthetics of last choices and level of leather finishing, antiquing etc. Is that a fair statement?

In short, how often do we experience major flaws from the upper tier makers and, assuming that there are no issues with fit, is this another key reason for choosing upper tier over lower?
post #53 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadcammer View Post

There is some bullshit floating around.
My OPINION:
1. Alden shoes are not attractive. They are blobby as hell and the quality is not measurably superior to AE, although I will agree that some of their leathers are better. At the price point, I don't give them a first thought, much less a second.
2. Meermin. An upstart that has promise. But, we are talking about chinese made shoes here and the quality control is seemingly lacking. From what i've seen, you've got about a 1 in 3 chance that your shoes may have a noticeable defect. Yes, the prices are good for handwelted shoes. Will this handwelting benefit the vast majority of users...probably not. To put Meermin in the same league as carmina or C&J is simply not correct.
The only benefit I see to meermin is that they offer a MTO service for 100 euro...and of course if you like the styling.
3. As much as some people like to say the difference between a benchgrade C&J and an EG/JL is "pretty big", I don't see it. I've worn EGs and have a few C&J benchgrades. Is the finishing a little nicer, the sole work better, and the leather quality a bit nicer, sure. What was the end result while wearing....not much...they both look great, wear well, and shine up nicely. If you spend your days examining your shoes up close, you may get value from these differences, but to the average SF user, the difference is academic. We are already talking about what, the top 1-3% of shoes made?

To your first point, Alden does many things very well (like unique makeups in exotic shell colors). However, if you are just talking about a standard calfskin dress shoe, which I think you are, then I wholeheartedly agree. There are much better options for the money.

Your third point makes a lot of sense, especially to someone who is just getting their first decent pair of shoes. I think someone already said it on the first page, but it is insane to go from a $100 shoe to a $1000 shoe in one fell swoop. Try a mid to high-end range shoe first and upgrade to the super high end after you can truly appreciate the subtle differences.
post #54 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsugsu View Post

Fit is indeed paramount and there is no value in investing even one dollar on a pair of shoes that don't fit. Doesn't matter if it is EG or AE.
Meermin has seemingly become the new darling of SF in that it delivers a quality product at a great price point. But I have a question. Reading the Meermin thread there have been quite a number of major flaws occurring, like heels separating or falling off. There are quality control issues with any product but how does this compare to other brands. In relative terms does Meermin seem to have more major flaws or is this just a blip because of their recent popularity and people posting a great deal?
How often are people encountering major problems with the higher end brands?
AE and Alden seem to have variable quality issues with finishing like stitching.
Vass? Other than issues with inconsistent sizing how often are major quality control issues reported here?
Carmina and C&J experience seem to be positive with the only difference separating them from EG and JL being a perceptible difference in the esthetics of last choices and level of leather finishing, antiquing etc. Is that a fair statement?
In short, how often do we experience major flaws from the upper tier makers and, assuming that there are no issues with fit, is this another key reason for choosing upper tier over lower?

Fit is indeed paramount. I would put looks over quality for 2nd. If the shoes are ugly and I won't wear them, why do I care that they are great quality.

The number of flaws with Meermin is alarming. Given that they are not known at all in the US (not sure about elsewhere), I'm guessing a lot of their order flow comes directly from this site. From what we have seen, a decent percentage of their shoes have some type of issue, the ones I purchased included.

AE had issues as well, but I believe has taken steps to fix those issues (heel separation). Sure, some pairs of AEs are messed up and shouldn't go out the door, but their customer service is top notch, and the number of defective shoes vs. good shoes, I believe would be lower than meermin.

As with flaws from the upper echelon, there may be some, but they produce fewer shoes, giving them the ability to do closer quality control checks. Furthermore, purchasers of these shoes usually know what and what is not acceptable, and as such, you don't see posts on here asking "whether xyz issue on my new EG/JL/G&G is normal". They simply recognize the flaw, determine if its acceptable to them, and either live with it or contact the company to resolve the issue.
post #55 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatlegeuse View Post

To your first point, Alden does many things very well (like unique makeups in exotic shell colors). However, if you are just talking about a standard calfskin dress shoe, which I think you are, then I wholeheartedly agree. There are much better options for the money.
Your third point makes a lot of sense, especially to someone who is just getting their first decent pair of shoes. I think someone already said it on the first page, but it is insane to go from a $100 shoe to a $1000 shoe in one fell swoop. Try a mid to high-end range shoe first and upgrade to the super high end after you can truly appreciate the subtle differences.

good points. Alden does do unique cord products, but since I don't like their lasts, alas, its not for me. They do make a quality product, but as you stated, for the price, i look elsewhere.

agree wholeheartedly that someone going from $100 shoes to $1000 shoes will likely miss whatever minor additional value exists over a $500-$600 shoe.
post #56 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzl View Post

no. completely wrong.
most important rule: fit, fit, fit and fit again. nothing else matters.

Seriously this cannot be stressed enough!

Also remember that a properly fitting shoe of any design is inherently nicer looking when worn than a poorly fitted uber expensive one.
post #57 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCanavan6 View Post

After getting bitten by the bug I have decided to began upgrading my wardrobe and one of my biggest problems is dress shoes. After deciding I would rather pay a bit more to upgrade from AE to Aldens, Churchs, Crockett & Jones, etc (~$500-$600) I have been wondering if it would be worth it to go all the way and purchase EG, JL, or Vass for my first couple pairs. Right now I am looking for a pair of black captoes and probably brown captoes with quarter broguing. What are the additional benefits of paying over $1000 a pair for EG, JL, or Vass (hopefully I can get some sort of deal) over a $500-$600 pair like Aldens, Churchs, or C&J? Obviously the leather is better quality and stitching/construction is better but in the end will I notice that large of a difference or should I save that $1000 ($500/pair) and spend it on something else? Any advice is appreciated.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermyn View Post

I think that whilst you may notice some difference between the $500-$1000 black captoes, this is not the best place to capture the main difference between price points.
Where the $1000 shoes tend to come into their own is with unique lasts and designs. You pay the upcharge because you want a design or colour not available in a cheaper brand's collection.
My compulsion to 'upgrade' was largely borne from a desire to own shoes in the JL7000 last and using EG crust leather, unique burnishing or using museum/ misty calf. Sometimes it can be something as small as an extra row of stitching, when you see it you know that buying an alternative shoe would be second best. You feel compelled to purchase the object of your desire.
Of course, along with the design comes improved quality (usually, Berluti is a point of debate for example). A pair of Saint Crispins gently cups the waist of your foot whereas a pair of C&J merely accomodates it (in my experience). Unfortunately, once you notice the improved quality and comfort, it is hard to go back. You'll end up buying the more expensive brands, even in relatively boring styles because you become familiar with the brand.
Unless one of these expensive shoes has really jumped out at you, I wouldn't bother buying a pair. Stick with a mid-priced maker. You'll probably get more satisfaction per dollar that way.

 

 

good post-  and this seems like  sensible advice -  Buying these kind of shoes is not the same as buying a purely functional item.     I buy really good shoes with my heart, not my head. 

 

If you love paintings for example (and you can afford to buy em) you'd rather have one Freud, or Rothko, or Bacon than any number of well-executed pics by the dude selling at the local boardwalk market.  

 

So why don't you try buying something mid-range, like a C&J Belgrave cap toe, and a really classic EG or Vass, like an Asquith or Inverness or a P2 Norweger (a hand-made shoe) and compare them?    If you then decide you dont want a collection of very expensive high end shoes, no great harm, but I suspect you'll only ever have that one C&J.

post #58 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidus View Post

I'm not sure how your reply is related to his post. His thinking is to spend more on a black captoe (because it is a basic design) and less on other types of shoes.
I think you should find a level of quality that you're happy with (probably at the $300-400) range and get all your shoes at that level. There's no need to spend more on black captoes.
The idea that you're even thinking about going from $100 to $1000 shoes is ridiculous.

No the idea is that presumably he can afford up to $1000. So for a while he should ignore price and just try on as many different lasted shoes as he can in store/wherever and find the one that fits the best. Once he finds that last if the price of the shoe is $1000 or below then he buys it.
post #59 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenon View Post


Also remember that a properly fitting shoe of any design is inherently nicer looking when worn than a poorly fitted uber expensive one.

no. Aside from just plain ridiculous fit issues, a slight bit of misplaced creasing does not make an uber expensive "nice" shoe (eg/jl etc) inherently worse loooking than a properly fitted pair of cole haans.
post #60 of 415
This is a lively conversation. biggrin.gif

I can only comment on AE, Alden, AS, C&J, EG, and JL; I do not have any Vass, G&G, Carmina, St. Crispin, or Meermin.

My two cents:
-AE and Alden are fine shoes but the QC is much better with their Northampton counterparts.
-Alden is excellent for casual shell shoes/boots but AE has the edge with calf dress/smart shoes. I consider Alden a niche brand for my casual shell footwear.
-C&J makes very good shoes with a nice variety of lasts (tradition 341 to contemporary 348/358) at a fair price (BG ~ $400; HG ~ $600 without customs/fees UK to US).
-AS' quality is overall better (i.e., leather uppers, sole treatment) compared to C&J (Exclusive vs. BG) and is reflected on the slight difference in price; AS HG (MTO) is great because of the quality but more importantly the level of accomodation/flexibility with CC.
-EG has excellent variety of styles/colors and their brown leathers ages beautifully. For comfort, not even factoring looks, their lasts fit me the best.
-JL's museum calf is unique and shoes like the William are classic.

I have found a happy triad of dress/smart shoe brands: C&J, AS, & EG with only EG breaking the MSRP >$1K mark (I consider my Alden shells casual wear). I own EG (and spend the money) because the 82 & 888 lasts fit me very well and EG has a great selection of color/style combinations; this is what I consider the 'advantage' of the brand. However, AS & C&J also fit the bill even if they are under the $1K mark.

Looking forward to receiving Vass & G&G soon.
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