Advantages of a $1000 Pair of Shoes - Page 26

How can you be certain, that damage did not occur when sole and cork were removed?



Gemming was introduced into shoe manufacture in the late 50s and by the mid 60s it had been accepted by virtual all manufactures. If the technique is as disastrous as some here claim, why is bonding failure so rare.

For all those who claim the superiority of hand welting, here is hand welting failure:






I don't say it happens frequently, but it does happen if the shoemaker/firm wants to cut corners, by placing the stitches to wide and/or not pulling them tightly enough.

Let the firm who made those shoes be nameless. They had, maybe four years ago, major problems with their (hand) welting. They might have overcome them now. I haven't seen their products (in the flesh) for quite a while.

How about another bespoke shoemaker's opinion? From carreducker's blog:

- so what are they talking about here then?

I really did not mean for my comments to become about gemming.

I was simply pointing out that each point in shoemaking has the best methods, and slightly less good methods of manufacture.

I'm sure bengal-stripe would agree with me here.

I also don't think GY welting is a bad method of manufacture for shoes. It enables quick production and easy re-soling. OTOH, so can cemented construction if you add a midsole.

Yes, absolutely, I actually believe that gemming failure is more likely to occur during re-soling - that's what the author of Permanent Style seemed to articulate anyway. The stress of pulling off the outsole pulls against the welt and brings up the gemming.

If you think about it, when the outsole is on, it itself provides the structural support to hold the shoe together.

When it's being pulled off it's going to put extra stress on the welt.

I agree that the shoe you've shown is a poor example of handwelting. However, even in this example, the welt can be re-attached to the insole. This happened with a pair of Vass recently that B nelson repaired.

I agree, it shouldn't happen in the first place and is a mark of poor work.

But comparing poor work of one method to standard work of another is not a fair comparison, IMO.


a) what's wrong with a half resole?

b) The wearer might not be able to tell the difference when the outsole is on, but once the outsole is removed, there will be nothing holding the shoe together and you will have to go through extensive recrafting rather than resoling.

The whole point of welted shoes is that the outsole can be changed with relatively minimal fuss.

If this isn't the case, well, you may as well have cemented construction.

I could easily envisage an upper cemented between a midsole and an insole, and an outsole cemented to the midsole. Logically speaking, this would be just as stable (if not more stable than) goodyear welted shoes.

 

1)  I don't know, I am just paraphrasing Permanent Style's blog post and presume that PS ran the article through EG before posting.

 

2)  Care to elaborate on these two pictures?  Were they not lasted tight enough and welted tight enough so the upper became loose at the welt?  Vass?

 

Not in their best interest to front stab someone in the same industry of the same country, but they are certainly very knowledgeable.

bengal stripe:

I seriously didn't mean for this to start again.

My understanding is that, all other things being equal, handwelting is more sturdy construction than GY welting. If we take Permanent Style's example, we can see that a re-crafting occurred after just 5 years. I'm not wealthy, I don't want to have to pay for a whole re-crafting when resoling is all that the shoe should need. The fact that Edward Green seems to only offer re-crafting -not allowing the option of resoling - seems to me to be evidence to the fact that they are aware that the gemming will often need to be glued back down during re-soling.

I've made this choice based on what is affordable to me. It certainly doesn't mean that it applies to everyone here, and I frankly don't care what anyone else pays for a recraft.

Every shoemaker that i've read about, whether they've seen gemming failure or not, will tell you that handwelting, when done properly, is a more structurally sound method than gemming.

Again, this probably doesn't matter to most people, but it does to me.

This is my logic.

anyone else can do whatever they please.

Seriously, how is this a reasonable request???

If you would like to pay me, I'll set up shop at a cobbler and do a scientific survey of 5000 gemmed shoes and 5000 handwelted shoes taking down all data possible.

Maybe I can fit it in as part of my PhD.


But in actuality you're asking for quantitative data on what should be viewed as a qualitative feature.

Exactly, and I'd rather have my shoes made to a way in which they don't need a recraft when it should just be a re-soling. It's cheaper over the long run.

This is not very good logic.

The answer is they probably don't know.

They buy luxury shoes and they don't care about how much it costs to recraft. They probably don't even know the difference between a recraft and a resole.

Hendrix,

Here's a vid on half soles (including adding a rubber heal). My main problem with it is that it looks like shite when not done with the care shown in this video. (Which is the norm) It just emotionally seems like a criminal thing to do to a good pair of shoes. I frankly don't know if it's functionally inferior to a full resole or not.



Although I've done it on shoes of lower quality or those that are getting really shabby.

I still have an old pair of Ferragamos that have been half soled. Uppers still in good shape.

And I didn't mean to start a shit storm either. We're cool. I get what you are saying about the choices you've made for yourself. You may well be correct that in the long run you can save a few bucks by avoiding a recraft.

Just wish there was some way to quantify this debate.
Edited by Gdot - 9/11/12 at 4:08pm

dream on, dream on

another great post from your side. much appreciated.

That half resole looked fine to me. Actually looked like quite a nice job.

I'm not sure if it is functionally inferior. Perhaps someone else could weigh in.

I would've liked to see a close channeled sole...

Yeah - it was a well done half soling.

It just creeps me out though - I'm not saying it's rational - btw.

From the same blog:

brownnosing at it's best. that's quite normal in their position, imo.

 

Are you suggesting all sorts of gemming failure can be fixed without the original last?

i suggest to buy good shoes, nothing else.