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Advantages of a $1000 Pair of Shoes - Page 15

post #211 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by JubeiSpiegel View Post

I haven't seen Gdot get this much shit since his debut on SF... smile.gif

just wait until hendrix get's up in Oz.... nod[1].gif
post #212 of 415
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Originally Posted by Stirling View Post

Stop taking things personally man! I wasn't even commenting or reacting to your post.

crackup[1].gif

If not in response to my post then to whose?
post #213 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirling View Post

 

Well I suppose there are two types of shoe guy, the ones who understand the craft and real quality and so tend to wear bespoke handmade shoes and then there are the igents who are deluded and think they understand the craft and translate their own largely aesthetic standards into some form of endorsement of quality - they buy rtw.  

 

affordability is another factor to consider when you make that statement. 

 

Also, there are always handmade/hand welted shoes using standardized RTW lasts...

post #214 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by JubeiSpiegel View Post

I haven't seen Gdot get this much shit since his debut on SF... smile.gif

Sure I have.......the debate that I started over the rediculous fanboyism of all things Saphir raged on for quite a while.

In the end, reason prevailed on the shoe care thread however.

I'm not so optimistic here, however, as there seems to be lots of emotion but little in terms of quantifiable facts.

For me the bottom line is this:

In practical terms there is very little difference between a G&G or EG RTW shoe and 'entry level' bespoke. Both shoes will last as long. And if they fit you well will serve you nearly equally well in practical terms. In all of the debates on here that have raged on for years nobody has been able to offer even the most remote proof otherwise. If it were not true the 'handcrafted' guys would surely have brought forth the evidence by now. Sure the 'internals' on a $1000 pair of RTW shoes might be lesser quality than those of a $2000 pair of bespokes - as a matter of fact they darned well better be.

Thus it all comes down to what personally floats your boat once you get past a certain quality level. Me - Aesthetics come first and foremost after durability and fit. No doubt about it. for others Craftsmenship is the be all and end all.

It has nothing to do with right, wrong, lack of understanding etc. etc. As Fritzl himself says, horses for courses. Where it breaks down is when parties on either side show disrespect for the choices of others. And then stoop to 'name calling' in lieu of actual substance.

However, occasionally it is fun to take on the debate. As it is a good way to sharpen one's wits. If we can't have a little tussle on the playground now and then we wouldn't be guys, would we?
post #215 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post

So, thus far you have made it clear that your reasons are not particularly quantifiable, unless you are implying that these unacceptable inner materials somehow impact the end result negatively in a quantifiable way.

 

Of course they do and if you don't get that at 53 you ain't ever gonna get it.baldy[1].gif

post #216 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirling View Post

 

Of course they do and if you don't get that at 53 you ain't ever gonna get it.baldy%5B1%5D.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post


crackup[1].gif
If not in response to my post then to whose?

 

dddrees pg 13 of 15 it wasn't that long ago!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JubeiSpiegel View Post

I haven't seen Gdot get this much shit since his debut on SF... smile.gif

 

Think he's asking for it actually.

post #217 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
affordability is another factor to consider when you make that statement. 

Also, there are always handmade/hand welted shoes using standardized RTW lasts...

nothing wrong with that.
post #218 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

 

affordability is another factor to consider when you make that statement. 

 

Also, there are always handmade/hand welted shoes using standardized RTW lasts...

 

Look at the context, before posting general wisdom.

 

Self proclaimed shoe guy, says he works in a very rarified environment, multi-million pound deals, $500 dollar shoes can't hold their own, image is everything blah, blah, blah.  

post #219 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzl View Post


nothing wrong with that.

+1

post #220 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirling View Post

Of course they do and if you don't get that at 53 you ain't ever gonna get it.baldy%5B1%5D.gif

Actually one of intellgence can learn at any age. Perhaps you could enlighten us heathens?

I note that i continuously ask for facts and get nothing but vague insinuation in reply.
post #221 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzl View Post

nothing wrong with that.

agreed!
post #222 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post


Sure I have.......the debate that I started over the rediculous fanboyism of all things Saphir raged on for quite a while.
In the end, reason prevailed on the shoe care thread however.
I'm not so optimistic here, however, as there seems to be lots of emotion but little in terms of quantifiable facts.
For me the bottom line is this:
In practical terms there is very little difference between a G&G or EG RTW shoe and 'entry level' bespoke. Both shoes will last as long. And if they fit you well will serve you nearly equally well in practical terms. In all of the debates on here that have raged on for years nobody has been able to offer even the most remote proof otherwise. If it were not true the 'handcrafted' guys would surely have brought forth the evidence by now. Sure the 'internals' on a $1000 pair of RTW shoes might be lesser quality than those of a $2000 pair of bespokes - as a matter of fact they darned well better be.
Thus it all comes down to what personally floats your boat once you get past a certain quality level. Me - Aesthetics come first and foremost after durability and fit. No doubt about it. for others Craftsmenship is the be all and end all.
It has nothing to do with right, wrong, lack of understanding etc. etc. As Fritzl himself says, horses for courses. Where it breaks down is when parties on either side show disrespect for the choices of others. And then stoop to 'name calling' in lieu of actual substance.
However, occasionally it is fun to take on the debate. As it is a good way to sharpen one's wits. If we can't have a little tussle on the playground now and then we wouldn't be guys, would we?

 

Quantifiable facts? what about random bs/unfounded statements, like do you even own pairs of EG RTW to make a comparison with GG er I'm guessing not. You see Gdot you talk about things in an authoritative way as if you have experiential knowledge when it's crystal that you don't. 

 

Now we can agree to disagree, but please don't undermine my viewpoint.

post #223 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post


Actually one of intellgence can learn at any age. Perhaps you could enlighten us heathens?
I note that i continuously ask for facts and get nothing but vague insinuation in reply.

 

You say that you have never suffered gemming failure in 53 years, how could you know? especially with your knowledge at the time, did you know what gemming was twenty years or thirty years ago? Do you understand the function of gemming? if so why would you then go on to state that you used to wear blake stitched shoes - contradictations, you are full of them and don't realise it because you don't have sufficient knowledge. Nothing wrong with that unless you start posting misinformation and misconceived ideas.

 

When you are given a fact you can't/don't accept it - this is unintelligent ignorance, there's no cure for that.

post #224 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirling View Post

Quantifiable facts? what about random bs/unfounded statements, like do you even own pairs of EG RTW to make a comparison with GG er I'm guessing not. You see Gdot you talk about things in an authoritative way as if you have experiential knowledge when it's crystal that you don't. 

Now we can agree to disagree, but please don't undermine my viewpoint.

Well actually again you are mistaken as to my knowledge. I don't currently own a pair of EGs. I briefly owned a pair. And I tried on about a half dozen pairs the last time I was in London, and found them not aesthetcially to my liking nor did I particularly like the fit. As the narrower lasts from G&G seems to work better for my foot.

In addition, I also have done some research, including reading dissections of many of the factory made shoes, including EG specifically. I am well aware of their synthetic components. Their basic method of construction etc. etc. Further I have corresponded with the owner's of G&G and recieved frank and honest information as to what is used within their shoes. Frankly it doesn't bother me a bit to spend $1000 less and get a shoe with a few synthetic innards and a gemmed welt.

I don't wish to undermine your viewpoint. If only you would quantify it. But yet again - you avoid, avoid, avoid, quantifying.

Other than emotional or even environmental issues what specifically makes these shoes with their synthetic innards inferior in terms of function or longevity?

It appears that you are attempting to hide from answering my questions, surely this cannot be the case. As you seem to be quite confident that your position is superior.

Funny thing is, I'd be happy for you to prove something to me here. I'm perfectly happy to admit that my knowledge is not vast.
post #225 of 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirling View Post

You say that you have never suffered gemming failure in 53 years, how could you know? especially with your knowledge at the time, did you know what gemming was twenty years or thirty years ago? Do you understand the function of gemming? if so why would you then go on to state that you used to wear blake stitched shoes - contradictations, you are full of them and don't realise it because you don't have sufficient knowledge. Nothing wrong with that unless you start posting misinformation and misconceived ideas.

When you are given a fact you can't/don't accept it - this is unintelligent ignorance, there's no cure for that.

Oh come now - a man knows when shoes have fallen apart and can't be resoled again. Or if his shoes come back from a resole with a somehow compromised fit. It never happened to me that the uppers outlasted the ability to have the shoes resoled. And I've never had a shoe become 'different' after a resole. And by the way I don't believe I said that I owned ONLY Blake stitched shoes.

I completely understand the function of gemming, I've read, discussed, debated, researched. Your constant insistence that a perfectly intelligent person is incapable of learning something via investigation is decidedly unflattering and paints you in a not so intelligent light.

Please state plainly the fact that I've been given and cannot accept. I fail to see what that would be. Perhaps I am indeed as ignorant as you imply. Although i quite seriously doubt it.
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