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post #76 of 99
9/6/12 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

I don't recall seeing Peter Smith, but Patrick Murphy was there. He appeared to be working on something in the back, so that's probably why he didn't come around. My complaint is that all the people in the front of the shop should be handling the front of the shop.
Nothing was more disappointing than W. Bill. They are clearly trying to modernize and spoke derisively of the "old-fashioned" types of cloth I asked for.
Well I am glad to hear that, obviously.
Seriously . . . it is a shame you didn't have a good experience there or a chance to talk to either of them.
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post #77 of 99
9/6/12 at 12:10pm
Thread Starter 
Oh, and an observation on how men dress in central London (around Mayfair): poor. New Yorkers are better-dressed, and that's really saying a lot.
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post #78 of 99
9/6/12 at 12:12pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

Well that is good news, obviously.

If I was feeling more obnoxious that day, I would have approached him and slipped him a gilt card with your name embossed on it. Yes, I keep those handy. They work very well in Manhattan. Not so much the Upper West Side, curiously.
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post #79 of 99
9/6/12 at 12:44pm
I wonder about potential implications of race in some of these circumstances. I hope that your negative experiences weren't down to that, but who knows?
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post #80 of 99
9/6/12 at 2:01pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post

I wonder about potential implications of race in some of these circumstances. I hope that your negative experiences weren't down to that, but who knows?

Who can say? We did notice that native English people treated us much better. It tended to be eastern European and Russian sounding workers that were rude or aloof. Cab drivers were all native English, and were uniformly friendly and polite.
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post #81 of 99
9/7/12 at 5:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Who can say? We did notice that native English people treated us much better. It tended to be eastern European and Russian sounding workers that were rude or aloof. Cab drivers were all native English, and were uniformly friendly and polite.

Differentiation by race (=racism) is bad, but differentiation by nation (=you guessed it) is good. confused.gif

Other than this, a nice report.

Andrey
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post #82 of 99
9/7/12 at 6:29am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreyb2 View Post

Differentiation by race (=racism) is bad, but differentiation by nation (=you guessed it) is good. confused.gif
Other than this, a nice report.
Andrey

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Differentiating two or more people by race is not racism. Judging an individual person based on his or her race is. You can apply a similar distinction when dealing with nationality.

I didn't say Russians and eastern Europeans are rude. I also didn't say the people who were rude to us must have been rude because they were Russian or eastern European. I did say the people who were rude to us tended to not be native English and sounded Russian or eastern European. There are many possible explanations for that which have nothing to do with prejudice.

Anyway, culture intrinsically shapes behavior in ways that one's race does not. The Chinese, English, Italians, and Russians each have their own distinct customs and ways. Now, these are not absolute "rules" to which there are no exceptions, but there is a reason why it makes sense to learn about a particular country's etiquette before visiting. I can tell you, as a result of the culture, racism is much more prevalent and publicly accepted in Taiwan than in the U.S. They just aren't taught the same sensitivity growing up.
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post #83 of 99
9/7/12 at 8:07am
If you happen to find yourself near Kensington High Street I'd go check out Hornets (they have 3 shops all within 5 minutes of each other). They sell all sorts of vintage bespoke suits, overcoats, and strange accessories.

It's run by some very eccentric guys and could be worthwhile if you want to wear someone else's old bespoke suit. Its a quintessentially British place.
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post #84 of 99
9/7/12 at 8:11am
Also go check out Lamb's Conduit Street. It's a very nice street to hang out with loads of independent shops, pubs, etc. There is an awesome designy kind of shop called Darkroom, and there are a few mid-range mens shops and tailors. I like Connock & Lockie a lot, which touts itself as an American tailor, whatever that means.
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post #85 of 99
9/7/12 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

I'm pretty sure you understood me quite well.

Think for a moment... perhaps those rude people (that sounded Russian or eastern European) were rude to you because to them you looked Chinese or eastern Asian? I'm not sure how your and those rude people's prejudice towards some other nations are different.

OK, whatever.

Andrey
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post #86 of 99
9/7/12 at 11:34am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreyb2 View Post

I'm pretty sure you understood me quite well.
Think for a moment... perhaps those rude people (that sounded Russian or eastern European) were rude to you because to them you looked Chinese or eastern Asian? I'm not sure how your and those rude people's prejudice towards some other nations are different.
OK, whatever.
Andrey

This makes no sense. Where was I prejudiced about people from other nations? I simply noted that certain people were ruder to us than others. The fact that they were obviously not native English speakers is an interesting observation in my opinion, particularly since London is such a diverse city. Perhaps they do not come from places that are as racially diverse and therefore are not as used to dealing with people who look very different from them. When I have visited other countries that are more homogenous, I have experienced similar treatment. When we were in Taiwan, people often stared at my wife funny and more than a few exclaimed in Chinese, "She's not fat at all!" My nephews and nieces reached out to touch her long nose like she was a lamb at a petting zoo.

Was that all racist of me to observe?
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post #87 of 99
9/7/12 at 11:56am
I don't want to derail your thread to DT. So, this is my last post on the topic.

"It tended to be eastern European and Russian sounding workers that were rude or aloof" is not an "interesting observation". You simply *don't know* who they are. Observations like these say more on yourself than on London workers. You either understand this or not.

Your Taiwanese observations are not relevant at all.

Andrey
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post #88 of 99
9/7/12 at 12:04pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreyb2 View Post

I don't want to derail your thread to DT. So, this is my last post on the topic.
"It tended to be eastern European and Russian sounding workers that were rude or aloof" is not an "interesting observation". You simply *don't know* who they are. Observations like these say more on yourself than on London workers. You either understand this or not.
Your Taiwanese observations are not relevant at all.
Andrey

I "don't know" whether the English I hear is accented one way or another? As a native speaker myself, I can't tell by ear whether English is one's native language? These are not judgments but plain, empirical observations. No values are attached to them.

You are essentially saying it is prejudicial to judge another's linguistics. This makes no sense, unless you haven't heard them speak. In this case, I did. Moreover, I do not treat anyone differently because of the language they use or how they speak English. It sounds like you have an odd (and, frankly, untenable) notion of racism and prejudice.
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post #89 of 99
9/7/12 at 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

The only thing I picked up in London was an umbrella from James Smith (bark ash with silver collar and black canopy). They cut to size while you wait--but keep in mind, this is not ideal. Ideally, they would proportion the whole umbrella to fit (not just cut off from the tip), but that takes several weeks of waiting and they seemed very, very reluctant to take custom orders. They push very hard to sell what they've got ready-made. Consequently, my umbrella tip is a bit stumpy. Oh well. The sticks are clearly from Talarico, though they will not admit it. I asked for a ten-rib frame and was told no. The parts are no longer available, apparently. I asked for a different color canopy, and was also told no. Soon after I started using my umbrella, the bark started chipping off from the end of the handle. I brought it back for them to look at before leaving London and was told it was normal. They stained the un-barked wood to make the flaw less obvious, but I worry the bark will continue coming off. One of the younger, friendlier staff slipped me his card as we were leaving and quietly assured he'd take care of the problem if it got worse back in the U.S.

I'm fairly certain the solid stick umbrellas are completely made in Italy (I have to imagine by Talarico).

I went in to order a custom one and they told me that because Italy is closed in Aug, I'd have to wait three months. They didn't seem to have any aversion to a custom order (and had flawlessly executed one for me a few years back) but were upfront about the wait.

I opted to order it directly from Talarico.
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post #90 of 99
9/7/12 at 12:27pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantabrigian View Post

I'm fairly certain the solid stick umbrellas are completely made in Italy (I have to imagine by Talarico).
I went in to order a custom one and they told me that because Italy is closed in Aug, I'd have to wait three months. They didn't seem to have any aversion to a custom order (and had flawlessly executed one for me a few years back) but were upfront about the wait.
I opted to order it directly from Talarico.

I think they get the parts from Talarico (namely, the sticks) but do assembly on their own. At least, that's what they seemed to be describing. Talarico's umbrellas seem superior to me overall: tighter fittings with a sturdier, more affirmative action. They are also much cheaper. Like a third of the price. But Talarico was extremely rude and difficult to deal with, refusing to do a custom order. I finally went through Mariano Rubinacci, but evidently things are taking longer than expected due to a special part they need to get.
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Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Sartorial London: The Official Thread (UPDATED 9/6/2012)