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How to wear a white shirt - Page 27

post #391 of 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

These are pretty much all things I have followed even before Manton writing this. It just makes sense to me personally.

It may make sense to you, but I've never followed any one of those as even close to a guideline, much less a proscriptive rule. They don't even come close to making sense to me, they just come off as a bunch of crap that somebody came up with to justify subjective preference.

White is a neutral ground that creates a sharp contrast. It shows dirt, so I wouldn't wear it hunting. Other than that, the country stuff is crap. You're not wearing tweed on a farm, why would you insist that every time you wear tweed, you act like you're on a farm? Do you carry a pitchfork to the office too? Why do you insist on strict adherence to old British rules, most of which were never actually all that strict, that have no relevance to the modern world? Why would you want to make new derivative rules based on the old irrelevant ones?

I wear white shirts. I wear white shirts in textured fabrics. I wear white shirts in informal settings. I wear them with brown shoes, I wear them with black shoes. I wear them with button down collars, I wear them with spread collars. I wear them with tweed, I wear them with navy suits. I wear other shirts too, but a white shirt is never wrong. Certainly it's not subject to these arbitrary choices posed as rules.
post #392 of 522

Honestly, I hadn't even thought about reading this thread until I saw a response to Yuppie's comment on the main page (last post). On styleforum, the drama that comes from the "rules" is usually of higher quality than the "rules" themselves. That may be the case here. I couldn't care less about these particular "rules." A little common sense and two working eyeballs should suffice.

post #393 of 522
There a clear times when a blue shirt is better--eg: With a beige suit as it looks less washed out. But, it's not rocket science.
post #394 of 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by archetypal_yuppie View Post


1) White is not a country shirt.// - Situational, you don't have to be pheasant hunting. But I get what he's going for here.

2) White is almost never good with an odd jacket (etc).// - Completely disagree. Many odd jackets (solid or patterned) can look great with a white shirt. If the objective is to pursue maximum subtlety, a blue shirt might accomplish that goal, but higher contrast in various situations (day or night) will often look good.

4) Suits should be blue or gray. Tan with white is an "advanced" look that can be good but let's leave that aside for now. Blue or gray. Dark suit, white shirt and dark tie is a great formal evening look. But if you are not going out, make the tie lighter than the suit. With a light suit and white shirt, wear a dark tie. Don’t wear a light suit, white shirt and light tie, or at least, be careful.// - What?

Don't mean to start a war or anything, but I like the idea of exerting some influence opposite the things that I deem as SF group think. The variety of things that are quite nice and acceptable is much bigger than the set things that gets appreciated here.

Hmmm, when I see white shirt, I tend to think "formal." I think that's where the not in the country / not good with odd jackets comes in. White OCBD shirts are a different animal from white spread collar shirts and I don't think the rules // "rules" described in the OP are meant to apply in the same manner there. I believe Manton has elsewhere (perhaps in this thread, perhaps not) said that a white shirt is fine with a blazer and grey trousers.

I don't understand Manton's reasoning behind the specific points you quoted on shoes // ties. Not sure what you're disagreeing with on Point 4 (all of it, just a part?).
post #395 of 522
Show me an outfit with a white shirt and brown shoes that wouldn't be better with either black shoes or a non-white shirt.
post #396 of 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibaldleach View Post

Not sure what you're disagreeing with on Point 4 (all of it, just a part?).

When you have to put that many conditionals into a piece of advice, it becomes pretty useless. Occam's razor etc.
post #397 of 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

Show me an outfit with a white shirt and brown shoes that wouldn't be better with either black shoes or a non-white shirt.

First of all, you are missing the point, with "better." If in your opinion, blue shirts would look better than white in a certain set of situations, then have at it. That does nothing to refute my point that a white shirt would not be unsuitable in the same situations. That's just an expression of your tastes.

Secondly, the permutations are endless (but it only takes one to bust a rule).

I don't know if you are predicating all of your situations on fobbish 1920's England in full suits, but I definitely am not. One that comes to mind:

Miami. Casually worn nice light white cotton shirt, light blue linen pants. Looks awesome with chestnut EG Kingsways and chestnut belt, would look terrible with black shoes/belt.

Conversely, would look terrible with blue shirt (you're already wearing blue pants). Does the rule now become no blue pants with an odd jacket, since the shirt has to be blue? Sillyness.

But that's all really an aside. Infinity outfits can look great with a white shirt and brown/burgundy/rioja/chestnut/you-name-it shoes, regardless of whether it's what you or some other people would choose.
post #398 of 522
Once you've lost the jacket, you're pretty much outside of the MC discussion anyway.
post #399 of 522
Also, the rule is gray pants with odd jackets. Get it straight.
post #400 of 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

Once you've lost the jacket, you're pretty much outside of the MC discussion anyway.

Not necessarily. There's a difference between classic summer menswear and street.
post #401 of 522
At least for the purposes of Mantons post, I think he's talking about wearing at least a jacket
post #402 of 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibaldleach View Post

I don't understand Manton's reasoning behind the specific points you quoted on shoes // ties. Not sure what you're disagreeing with on Point 4 (all of it, just a part?).

 

I think it may be a consequence of the other guidelines. Begin with the tie, then move to the shirt, then the suit, and finally the shoes. Given a tie, suppose you have only a blue or a white shirt to pick from. If you chose white, then (supposing still you're following the guidelines outlined in the OP) that tie is likely navy, light blue, grey, black, silver (otherwise you would have chosen a blue shirt). . . Then you pick a suit (blue or grey). If you're in the grey/black/silver family, then black shoes are a better choice. With a navy/light blue, again black shoes (because the grey suit is presumably preferable, and hence so are the black shoes).

 

Also, once again people seem to be getting their panties in a wad about "rules" and seem concerned with proving them wrong or disagreeing with them without understanding where they come from, and why they might be useful. I think this thread in particular is a perfect example of a simple guideline - a blue shirt is almost always a better choice - that is easy to apply blindly and still likely to result in a tasteful outfit. That's the point, I think: simplify the way choices are made when dressing and still dress well. Are there exceptions? Of course, but that's completely missing the point.

post #403 of 522
This topik is, it for satire ?
post #404 of 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by topos View Post

I think it may be a consequence of the other guidelines. Begin with the tie, then move to the shirt, then the suit, and finally the shoes.

I do not accept that order as a given. Why not start with the suit and shoes and then pick out the shirt and tie combination as a unit?
Quote:
Given a tie, suppose you have only a blue or a white shirt to pick from. If you chose white, then (supposing still you're following the guidelines outlined in the OP) that tie is likely navy, light blue, grey, black, silver (otherwise you would have chosen a blue shirt). . .

Again, not so much a given. Those color choices are debatable, and individual preference, not any sort of serious color theory. Nor will any given color only go with one given color shirt, or necessarily go with either blue or white "better".
Quote:
Then you pick a suit (blue or grey). If you're in the grey/black/silver family, then black shoes are a better choice. With a navy/light blue, again black shoes (because the grey suit is presumably preferable, and hence so are the black shoes).

Not a big fan of black shoes with navy in general- even when wearing a white shirt. This also does not work at all when you add other colors to the mix, or involve sportcoats in any way. I match shoe color to suit color and the level of formality I'm trying to achieve, and frequently wear blue shoes for fairly conservative occasions, black shoes and all. The horror!
Quote:
Also, once again people seem to be getting their panties in a wad about "rules" and seem concerned with proving them wrong or disagreeing with them without understanding where they come from, and why they might be useful. I think this thread in particular is a perfect example of a simple guideline - a blue shirt is almost always a better choice - that is easy to apply blindly and still likely to result in a tasteful outfit. That's the point, I think: simplify the way choices are made when dressing and still dress well. Are there exceptions? Of course, but that's completely missing the point.

You have a lot of personal opinions adding up to that bit of advice though. Will you look good if you follow them? Probably. Will you look good if you don't follow them? In the case of some 'rules', you wouldn't. In the case of this one, you would look just as good if you never knew it existed or did, and ignored it completely. Which makes it utterly useless, and rather misleading to anybody looking for practical advice.
post #405 of 522

You're missing the point. I was merely speculating about how one might arrive at "white shirts almost always demand black shoes" using the other guidelines in the OP. I might be deducing things in a way they weren't originally intended, but then I wouldn't be the first one to do that in this thread. In particular I am not claiming I follow it myself (I don't, but that's because of context) - it was an intellectual exercise.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post

You have a lot of personal opinions adding up to that bit of advice though. Will you look good if you follow them? Probably. Will you look good if you don't follow them? In the case of some 'rules', you wouldn't. In the case of this one, you would look just as good if you never knew it existed or did, and ignored it completely. Which makes it utterly useless, and rather misleading to anybody looking for practical advice.

 

If it's useless for you, then you can ignore it; I don't really care one way or another, nor do I have a horse in this race. I find the whole blue/white shirt thing easy to think about and apply, and it's proven relevant to my wardrobe. So I like this particular guideline.

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