stitchy don't be so sure that I am right re: district check/gun glub but that is my story and I am sticking with it.
Originally Posted by sugarbutch
edmorel, there's some weird stuff going on around the midsection. Plus, cannot abide the tie-below-the-button show. And the sleeves seem kind of, um, generous. But that's fit, and that's kinda outside the scope of this here thread. So, I think the gray of the trousers is too cool for the jacket (at least in these pics). The Dinkelackers look pretty reasonable here, though; much better than in the shoe porn pics you posted earlier.
the pants aren't going to get any better unless I lose weight or get new pants made. So far I am deciding to lose weight and not get any larger pants but something tells me that larger pants will win out. The midsection stuff, I was doing silly right before the pic was taken but anyway, your critiques reminded me of something I wanted to say (soapbox) which I'll go post in the WAYWN threak.
Hello everyone, my name is Mr.Morel, please pass the syllabus to the person next to you.......
So SB gave me this critique yesterday:
and I thought it was interesting/constructive for a couple of reasons.
We post here, I'm assuming, because we either think we are dressed well, are looking for advice or some combination of both. No two of us are alike and our fits should be somewhat different from the next guy, even if he is wearing the same exact thing in the same exact manner. Then there is the issue of photgraphy/staging. Two people with the same physique wearing the same thing will look diferent if one person takes very good pictures and the other a cell phone pic. So what to with the criticism received here? Well, here is how I took SB's criticism.
1. "weird stuff going on around the midsection". In the picture, there is an obvious dent/pull on my right side around the middle button. Given that the jacket was made for me, that should be worrying as it could be a construction or fit issue. So I look at myself wearing the jacket in a mirror and the dent is not there, all is OK. I know that right before the pic, I had my hand stuffed in my patch pocket doing a silly pose and my wife hit me right around where the dent is so I know what the cause of it was but my larger point here is that sometimes there are things we can't see (or refuse to see) that a pic of someone else's eyes notice and we should check it rather than just brushing it off.
2. "the tie is below the button show". I am not proficient in the rules but I think the classic rule on this is that your tie should not show below the last jacket button (nor should your pants waist). So what to do. The pants waist issue would be resolved by me getting slightly higher rise and larger waisted pants. I will be doing that if I can't lose the 10 lbs. I am trying to lose. I can lower the buttoning point on my jacket and maybe get a bit lionger coat but i have odd proportions and I think this jacket length/buttoning point work for my physique (the classic jacket length is, I think, about half the distance between your neck/collar and the floor, while covering your behind).I have short legs for my height, and a long torso, I think in this setup I look like my two halfs are equal, with the pants issue addressed above, I think I will look like I have slightly longer legs than torso, which is what I want and is physically not the case. The tie showing for me is not an issue, I don't mind it as I don't fuss with my tie a lot, I tie it once and as long as its not ridiculously short or long, I leave it as is, typically that leaves the tie right around my pants waistband. But, since my preference will be for having my pants waistband be right around or slightly higher than the bottom button of the jacket, that will essentially take care of the "tie show" issue, without me really addressing it.
Here is a case where I essentially already had in mind fixing part of what SB was critiquing but had I not thought about it previously, this would have been a good instance of looking at the critique, seeing if you think its valid for how you dress and either addressing it or ignoring it. Had my pants been higher rise and no waistband showing but the tie just happened to have been tied a bit long and it was showing, I would not care about SB's critique and would not spend an extra second trying to get the tie to the perfect length.
3. "the sleeves seem generous". Yes, you know what they say about guys with big sleeves. I like them, not everyone does. Big lapels here are almost universally loved, but big sleeves are either not given much thought or just the Napoli contigent likes them. But lets look at my coat. You have a big (and incredibly handsome) guy. Broad shoulders, big lapels (lapels are halfway across the chest, which is the classic measurement, but I will probably add 1/4 inch on the next one). There is space in the chest and a big skirt. The sleeves are in balance with everything else. Take a look at a jacket (Tom Ford) where you see huge lapels and very slim sleeves. Take a very good look at it. Doesn't it look a bit unbalanced? Huge lapels but tight chest, slim sleeves, slim body. The lapels smack you in the face. I think it looks unbalanced so I like big sleeves. So in this case, I totally ignore (although still man-love) SB. BTW, these sleeves are the same width of everything else I've posted, they are longer but that will eventually be taken cared of. Which touches on the issue of photography quality/lighting/angles etc.
4. "trousers too cool". Honestly, I don't know what this means but I assume it has to do with color. This is my favorite grey color for pants. Not too light and not too dark. I have lighter grey and darker which I wear but this color is in my wheelhouse as I wear a lot of dark suede and calf shoes (and brown jackets) and I just really like the sedateness of everything when I wear this type of combo. So there may be a more "optimal" pants color for this outfit, but this is where my happiness lies. When I dress like this, I feel good, comfortable and appropriate for the environment in which I operate. This is a scenario where I am going to ignore SB/forum dogma because my comfort and happiness level with an outfit is going to trump what may or may not be "best". Know yourself, know what you like and what your environment is before following everything that is said here. To me, there is nothing worse than "thinking" about your clothes once you are wearing them.
5. "dinkelackers look reasonable here". This touches on the photography issue in part. I posted pics of these (drop dead gorgeous) Dinkelacker shoes previously and not everyone liked them. Nothing wrong with that, not everyone is going to like everything. But what if I am on the fence about wearing/buying something and I get negative/positive feedback on something? Easy, buy/wear the positive feedback items, don't buy/don't wear the negative feedback stuff. Well hold on, SB has now gone from thinking they looked ridiculous to thinking they now look reasonable. What if in the next pic I post, SB's thoughts on my Dinks goes from reasonable to sensible? If I reacted to his and others initial reaction, I would be Dinkless This is a case of me knowing my wardrobe (and being resolute in my likes). I wear tapered pants, small leg opening. I have a size 10 foot. I've worn (and still wear) elongated lasts shoes, but a lot of them don't work in my wardrobe and I've gotten rid of them in favor of softer/rounder toe stuff. A size 10 shoe in a some of these elongated lasts worn with tapered pants look like you are wearing cowboy boots. There is nothing wrong with cowboy boots, but that is not the look I am going for. I also wear a lot of casual/country type clothing (tweeds, flannels etc), sometime I see people wearing jeans, cords or tweeds with an elongated last (on a very dressy shoe) and I find it bizarre. So even though there are certain shoes on SF which are very popular, I can't wear them because they will not look good on my feet/wardrobe, even though they would get universal acclaim if I posted a fit pic. Pictures are one thing. Look at the items in the context of your body and your clothing. Again, comfort should be first and foremost followed by the overall aesthetic of your outfit.
The internet machine has been great for mens clothing and mens clothing sellers like myself. But at the same time, its been a very bad thing for mens clothing. Beautifully staged and photographed pictures have sometimes trumped common sense ("How can I get my linen suit to not wrinkle?"). Alot of me too-ism exists (wow, that guy looks cool with the wrist beads/lapel pin/pocket square/glasses hanging out from chest pocket/scarf/pocketwatch chain on the vest/wallet chain on the pants/unbuttoned BD collar/back blade of tie showing, so let me do the same thing"). You need to be you. There are guys here that dress very in your face. Some get away with it, some don't. I could never dress Tiralleur or TTO (well, maybe TTO) but that doesn't mean that they are bad dressers. They have a style which they have cultivated which works with their lifestyle/tastes. If I came dressed to my place of business dressed like one of those guys, I would feel self concious and uncomfortable. I would be coming on here asking how to wear this pocket square or this tie color or these shoes etc. I don't think TTO worries about his outfit once he wears it. I don't think Tiralleur worries about his pocket square puff as he goes about his day. So when we see pictures great dressers, be it Pitti, on the forum, AA illustrations or pics of Cary Grant/Fred Astaire/James Bond, keep in mind that not everything is meant for everyone.
Your style has to be organic to you. An academic approach to dressing is fine, where the color wheel and textural discourses are brought out to the forefront and of course we can all learn from places like this and from seeing and hearing others but you can't just do what everyone else does and be stylish. Try different shit out, don't worry about if your pocket square drops a bit in your pocket, don't aim to look like a perfectly staged and photographed menswear blogger all day long. Clothing should come alive when you wear it, it moves with you, it wrinkles, pants get frumpy, jacket elbows wrinkle and you should be as physically and mentally comfortable in a suit as your are in jeans and a tee.
Anyway, that has been my approach. I've gone from British dandy in the late 90's (lots of T&A contrast collar shirts and sharp suits) to BB trad early 2000 (BB shirts/ties and suits) to everything handstitched/Napoli/elongated shoes (post-finding SF) to where I am now. I feel like I can grab anything in my closet and wear it without thinking about how to wear it. I don't think my clothes wears me and I don't think I have any aspect of my clothing that really smacks you in the face (other than pattern/color). I'm as comfortable walking 20 blocks in my suits/shoes as I am in my jeans/sneakers. Do I always hit a home run? No, but so what?