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whnay.'s good taste thread - Page 326

post #4876 of 12286
You're misreading history. The white shirt was always the most formal option -- for a long time the only option. Over time other colors became acceptable. However that did not make the white shirt less acceptable, as it remained the default option into the '60s.

As to your other point, a sportcoat is painfully dressed up to most people. That's the norm of today.
post #4877 of 12286
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocHolliday View Post

You're misreading history. The white shirt was always the most formal option -- for a long time the only option. Over time other colors became acceptable. However that did not make the white shirt less acceptable, as it remained the default option into the '60s.

As to your other point, a sportcoat is painfully dressed up to most people. That's the norm of today.

How am I misreading history when you're saying exactly what I'm saying? "The white shirt was always been most formal option." Yes, exactly. The difference is that we are now free to wear less "correct" (i.e. more casual) shirting with our tailored clothing. A spectrum has opened up that wasn't as established before. Now that we have that spectrum available, we should be considerate of it when we dress. A suit is on the formal side of the tailored spectrum, and a tweed jacket is on the casual side. The same goes for white shirts and blue shirts, respectively. If I wear a more casual jacket, I should pick a more casual shirt.
post #4878 of 12286

If I may interrupt with my noobish confusion, you say that the spectrum of shirt options has opened to wear blue shirts (i.e. more casual) with suits (i.e. more formal). Why doesn't it work in the opposite direction? Why is it not possible now to wear white shirts (more formal) with tweed jackets (more casual)?

 

Don't take me wrong, I agree 100% that blue shirts look better with tweed than white, and I certainly appreciate all the time you and other people here take to explain their points, but I am honestly lost...

post #4879 of 12286
Quote:
Originally Posted by crooky13 View Post

Adopting this train of thought should therefore preclude men from wearing blue shirts with suits.

There are many "well-dressed" men who have managed to overcome the informality of a blue collar when pairing it with a suit. Prince Charles has a fondness for blue shirts and I am yet to hear anyone describe him as informal.

I think Mafoofan already went over this with a good explanation that it is much easier to dress a suit down to than to dress an odd jacket up. I agree with him on that regard. Also, how do you come to the conclusion that suits, in and of themselves, are formal; therefore, needing a formal shirt? I understand that in today's day and age putting on a suit gets reactions of "wow fancy today" due to shorts and jerseys being considered informal, but I think your case is built on an incorrect assumption and should be tossed aside. I'd guess you are confusing formal with conservative--formal is practically always conservative, while conservative does not have to be formal...
post #4880 of 12286
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekS View Post

he lives in nashville...ive spent a lot of time with him and his wife...and his brother...he's got so much charisma it sickens me.

is he a musician from your rocker days? he seems to a be a truly well dressed dude.
post #4881 of 12286
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocHolliday View Post

a sportcoat is painfully dressed up to most people. That's the norm of today.

It really is sad that this is a completely true statement.
post #4882 of 12286
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinfjotli View Post

If I may interrupt with my noobish confusion, you say that the spectrum of shirt options has opened to wear blue shirts (i.e. more casual) with suits (i.e. more formal). Why doesn't it work in the opposite direction? Why is it not possible now to wear white shirts (more formal) with tweed jackets (more casual)?

Don't take me wrong, I agree 100% that blue shirts look better with tweed than white, and I certainly appreciate all the time you and other people here take to explain their points, but I am honestly lost...

Like zeero3 reiterated above, suits can be dressed down much easier than odd jackets can be dressed up.

If I had to guess at the reason why, it's that, as society has moved further away from tailored clothing and classic menswear as norms, there is less room for "in between" solutions in people's closets. That's to say, a man is more likely to own a suit than a tweed jacket, if he is only going to have one. Sensible, as when one needs to wear a jacket and tie, a suit is more likely to suffice than a tweed jacket. You can dress business formal and sneak into a business casual or "cocktail attire" scenario, but not the other way around.

Consequently, we now do more with a typical business suit than we may have in the past. In the past, there were also more casual and sporting suits available. So the adaptability of the suit is both sensible today and long-established. In contrast, an odd jacket is only correct when you don't need to be business formal, and hence squarely pegged as a more casual garment that cannot be dressed up.
post #4883 of 12286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewfoot View Post

It really is sad that this is a completely true statement.

ill third that. i can only barely get away with it at work and not be considered a buffoon. at previous jobs, not even an option.
post #4884 of 12286
This is nitpicky as in the current incarnations of odd jackets you are absolutely correct, but historically it's not inherently more formal to have jacket and trousers of same material. For example, morning dress and strollers.
post #4885 of 12286
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

is he a musician from your rocker days? he seems to a be a truly well dressed dude.

no... his wife was a client of mine. We'd talk watches and Sinatra. He used to talk about a haberdasher in NY that he used for his ties/scarves. I wish i could remember who it was.
post #4886 of 12286
Another datum




There's more... (Click to show)
I'm also wearing french cuffs devil.gif
post #4887 of 12286

^^^ Saved to my "cool styles" folder. Very nice. Your style doesn't always conform to the norm around here but I usually think it looks good, sugarbutch.

post #4888 of 12286
Sorry, S., that's a fail to me.

There is a sort of odd jacket that has become common everywhere that echoes the look of old tweed jackets, but has none of the interest or charm. You find them everywhere. At Jos. A. Bank, at Nordstrom, etc. It's the odd jacket that every guy owns who's over 40 and needs an odd jacket but doesn't actually give a crap about being stylish. That's the jacket you are wearing. There are faux worsted "tweed" jackets that pass muster, but they do so with the bold, vivid patterns and colors typical of true tweed. The faux tweed you're wearing doesn't accomplish that.

Also, you've paired it with dark grey trousers. Those should generally be avoided, as they have the distinct air of being orphaned from a suit.

The white shirt is not helping you. It only highlights the antithetical nature of your odd jacket. You look like a guy who never wears odd jackets and can't think any differently about them than you would a suit.

The matching white square is death. It is (as is the shirt) too sharp and contrasting versus your jacket. That it matches your shirt is "technically correct (only because so many people are convinced a white square and white shirt are never wrong together) but banal" at best.
post #4889 of 12286
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

How am I misreading history when you're saying exactly what I'm saying? "The white shirt was always been most formal option."
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocHolliday View Post

-- for a long time the only option.
post #4890 of 12286
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Sorry, S., that's a fail to me.

There is a sort of odd jacket that has become common everywhere that echoes the look of old tweed jackets, but has none of the interest or charm. You find them everywhere. At Jos. A. Bank, at Nordstrom, etc. It's the odd jacket that every guy own's who's over 40 and needs an odd jacket but doesn't actually give a crap about being stylish. That's the jacket you are wearing. There are faux worsted "tweed" jackets that pass muster, but they do so with the bold, vivid patterns and colors typical of true tweed. The faux tweed you're wearing doesn't accomplish that.

The jacket is actually fuzzy, so I'm not sure how much of this critique applies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Also, you've paired it with dark grey trousers. Those should generally be avoided, as they have the distinct air of being orphaned from a suit.

We'll have to agree to disagree about this. Dark gray flannel trousers work just fine as odd trousers. If you have some historical basis for your objection, I'm happy to hear it, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

The white shirt is not helping you. It only highlights the antithetical nature of your odd jacket. You look like a guy who never wears odd jackets and can't think any differently about them than you would a suit.

Oh, foo.gif... Look at today's shirt in the context of this ongoing conversation. It's a visual riposte. A bit of fun, just like...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

The matching white square is death. It is (as is the shirt) too sharp and contrasting versus your jacket. That it matches your shirt is "technically correct (only because so many people are convinced a white square and white shirt are never wrong together) but banal" at best.

devil.gif
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