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whnay.'s good taste thread - Page 246

post #3676 of 13589
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSS View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred49 View Post

LOL You might have your screen checked for color, the suit is navy as navy can be.
Lighting and a monitor's color ability -- or lack thereof -- can do amazing things.

Fred, do you remember when I posted photos of my R.A. DB suit in a diagonal pinstripe? As Yachtie put it, "His ass got handed to him on a platter." Still, I love that suit. I wouldn't wear it in Souix Falls, Jackson, or Charlottesville -- thankfully I'm not often there -- but it works just fine in San Francisco, New Orleans & London.

If not too much trouble, please re-post photos of this suit. I'm intrigued.
post #3677 of 13589
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

so your point is that it is purely your opinion, and what you find to be aesthetically pleasing. not any kind of convectional wisdom or accepted rule of any kind.
Hasn't this always been the case?
post #3678 of 13589
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

so your point is that it is purely your opinion, and what you find to be aesthetically pleasing. not any kind of convectional wisdom or accepted rule of any kind.
am i understanding this correctly?

No.

I've argued it is objectively bad. If style and aesthetics stopped at conventional wisdom and accepted rules, it would be easy for everyone to look good. Unfortunately, here and elsewhere, we often confuse convention for aesthetic merit all the time. Manton's post touched on this but reached the wrong conclusion.

I think the only reason anyone finds the combination pleasing is intrinsically tied to its perceived correctness. In all other combinations of things we wear, where there is less clearcut orthodoxy to refer to, we take care not to match things perfectly. If you were wearing a light blue shirt, it would never occur to you to pair a pocket square in the same light blue. The white square plus white shirt combination is an anomaly. Moreover, because white is as bright as it gets, square and shirt combined tend to cut an exceedingly stark contrast against your suit, which makes the contrivance of the repetition all the more distracting. Even worse, you are left with little opportunity to fill-out the contrast gap. Just your tie. That's why the look tends to come across as cartoonish. It winds up being defined by one item.

Yes, the combination is conventional and "correct." But it is lazy and bad. Bad, lazy conventions should be avoided, not conceded to.
post #3679 of 13589
Thread Starter 
It's unlikely that something can be "objectively aesthetically bad" but only one person in the history of the world has ever concluded such.
post #3680 of 13589
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Yes, it's a convention and "correct." But it is lazy and bad.
You can claim it's objectively bad ... but it's really nothing more than your opinion.

You remind me of my father. He too thought his opinions were fact.
post #3681 of 13589
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

No. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I've argued it is objectively bad. If style and aesthetics stopped at conventional wisdom and accepted rules, it would be easy for everyone to look good. Unfortunately, here and elsewhere, we often confuse convention for aesthetic merit all the time. Manton's post touched on this but reached the wrong conclusion.
I think the only reason anyone finds the combination pleasing is intrinsically tied to its perceived correctness. In all other combinations of things we wear, where there is less clearcut orthodoxy to refer to, we take care not to match things perfectly. If you were wearing a light blue shirt, it would never occur to you to pair a pocket square in the same light blue. The white square plus white shirt combination is an anomaly. Moreover, because white is as bright as it gets, square and shirt combined tend to cut an exceedingly stark contrast against your suit, which makes the contrivance of the repetition all the more distracting. Even worse, you are left with little opportunity "fill out" the contrast gap. Just your tie and your suit itself. Suits are generally subdued, so really, it's just your tie. That's why the look tends to come across as cartoonish. It is defined by one item.
Yes, it's a convention and "correct." But it is lazy and bad.

meh. at least you arent a pushover. ill give you that.
post #3682 of 13589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

It's unlikely that something can be "objectively aesthetically bad" but only one person in the history of the world has ever concluded such.

Objectively, I think foo.gif is aesthetically adorable shog[1].gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSS View Post

You can claim it's objectively bad ... but it's really nothing more than your opinion.
You remind me of my father. He too thought his opinions were fact.

Thurston Howell II ?
post #3683 of 13589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

It's unlikely that something can be "objectively aesthetically bad" but only one person in the history of the world has ever concluded such.

I don't think I'm the only one. The combination is actually quite rare amongst the dressers I appreciate. Hell, you rarely wear it yourself. Convention and reliance on convention is the only thing keeping it alive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSS View Post

You can claim it's objectively bad ... but it's really nothing more than your opinion.
You remind me of my father. He too thought his opinions were fact.

Is that your opinion?

If I believe an opinion has no objective basis, I don't share it and usually don't keep it. I think doing otherwise is the real crime.
post #3684 of 13589
A wise man once said that Foo states opinions as facts...
post #3685 of 13589
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

Thurston Howell II ?
Well, everyone knows I live on an island.
post #3686 of 13589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Moo View Post

A wise man once said that Foo states opinions as facts...

A truly wise man knows that it makes no difference what you call an idea or belief. What matters is whether it has merit. What is often called "fact" is just an opinion you were too lazy to investigate. So investigate everything and forget what you feel the impulse to call it.
post #3687 of 13589
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Moreover, because white is as bright as it gets, square and shirt combined tend to cut an exceedingly stark contrast against your suit, which makes the contrivance of the repetition all the more distracting.

White shirt / white square seems like the least contrived thing in the world. Everyone owns (or certainly should own) both. The lack of creativity which you decry would indicate that there is no contrivance. The effort involved in matching the shades of blue in a shirt / square would, however, make that look contrived.

You can dislike it but I don't think it's reasonable to say that either a white shirt or a white square or the combination is at all distracting. Even if they focus attention on the tie, it would be up to the tie to provide any distraction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Even worse, you are left with little opportunity to fill-out the contrast gap. Just your tie. That's why the look tends to come across as cartoonish. It winds up being defined by one item.

Cartoonish is perhaps the least apt adjective for that look. You may have a point with boring (though that's hardly a demerit in my book) but 'cartoonish' is grasping for straws.
post #3688 of 13589
Foo, you will have an easier time with this topic when you realize that there are no facts about clothing choices. Just because I say that Pulp Fiction is the best Quintin Tarantino film, and present many reasons why it is such, does not make it such. Same with your white square/white shirt opinion. You've stated multiple times why you think it's bad. Fine, great. You think so, others don't. If you stop begrudging everyone with your factpinions, we can move on. nod[1].gif
post #3689 of 13589
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

What is often called "fact" is just an opinion you were too lazy to investigate.

 

I love this.

post #3690 of 13589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Moo View Post

A wise man once said that Foo states opinions as facts...

Do you have a way of knowing something to be true that is independent of your reasons for believing it in the first place?
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