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Buying and Selling on eBay: Tips, Tricks, Problems & Questions - Page 119

post #1771 of 18110
Quote:
Originally Posted by 83glt View Post

But it's happening to me right now! If there's currently no recourse, can't something be done to influence ebay's policies going forward?

Zero recourse bro, sorry.
post #1772 of 18110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post

Ebay buyers need to learn how to sprinkle things like "Would you mind...", "I would appreciate if you would...", "Thanks" or "Please..."
I think some of them were raised by wolves. Here is the entire text of a message from a prospective buyer:
Pitarm 2 Pitarm
Waist belt line 2d button from bottom
Yoke shoulder 2 shoulder

I don't respond to those. The same request with a little bit of courtesy gets measurements.

Heh. You have to admit "Waist belt line 2d button from bottom" is pretty funny.
post #1773 of 18110
Quote:
Originally Posted by 83glt View Post

But it's happening to me right now! If there's currently no recourse, can't something be done to influence ebay's policies going forward?

A seller can just as easily send a buyer a box of rags instead of the NWT Kiton suit. Ebay will not be able to determine who is lying. The whole thing is built on trust and honesty.
Edited by Steve Smith - 1/2/13 at 9:49pm
post #1774 of 18110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post

A buyer can just as easily .... The whole thing is built on trust and honesty.

And for every shitty buyer, there are at least as many shitty sellers, which is why ebay has enacted all the policies we regularly decry. Crappy ebay sellers are what drove me to head more deeply into buying secondhand/thrifting. I was so tired of buying items only to get them and find undisclosed damage that I decided to bypass Ebay and find it myself so I could personally inspect it before committing to buy it. I buy almost nothing on Ebay these days.
post #1775 of 18110
^Agreed. I transposed buyer and seller on my original post, then edited it when I saw your quote. I meant to say exactly what you are saying.

We complain about idiotic or dishonest buyers here because most of us are predominantly sellers on ebay. There are many shitty sellers there too.
post #1776 of 18110
Just to be clear, let me give you the main examples I'm dealing with. If nothing else there might be lessons here that everyone can draw from.

I sold a 3rd Gen iPad, used about 2 months. Mint condition in every respect. Buyer receives it and says it's 2nd Gen which is total bullshit. She's now threatening to file a claim and I fear she will send me back what I assume is her old 2nd Gen iPad, keeping the near new 3rd Gen I just sent her, and getting her money back. I worry Ebay will side totally with the buyer without question, because short of having filmed the process, which seems totally ridiculous to me and incredibly onerous, I can't prove what I sent her. So buyer will get a free upgrade. From what you guys are saying, It seems when it's he said she said, the buyer will always prevail.

The other buyer basically opened the box to remove the items (a mixed lot) that he wanted (and the most valuable), leaving the rest, and saying the box was damaged and contents lost during shipment (I very stupidly did not purchase insurance this time). This dude is totally sketchy. He's registered in China but claims he lives in Canada, and the package was in the hands of a "forwarding company" before USPS noted it as delivered through their delivery confirmation, so he or at least someone under his direction had access to the package before it was noted as delivered (I printed the USPS status page at the time to show this). I'm still fighting this one, but the best thing I have going for me is that the buyer, in an early email, specified precisely how he wanted me to package the items as he wasn't interested in most of them and wanted the desirable items to be packaged in the center of the package to be protected by the less desirable items "should something happen." So if the package was damaged in transit as he claimed, there's a good chance that the more desirable items will still be there, or at least mostly. If all the items that he wanted are exactly the ones missing from the package then it's highly suspect. In addition, even though he claims he uses a "forwarding company", the address he gave me is not a business address. He has 100% positive feedback, and I had no reason to worry. I'm going to fight it all the way. Any other ideas?
post #1777 of 18110

How did I just see this thread now?! That's my weekend reading sorted, thanks gents. bigstar[1].gif

post #1778 of 18110
Quote:
Originally Posted by 83glt View Post

I sold a 3rd Gen iPad, used about 2 months. Mint condition in every respect. Buyer receives it and says it's 2nd Gen which is total bullshit. She's now threatening to file a claim and I fear she will send me back what I assume is her old 2nd Gen iPad, keeping the near new 3rd Gen I just sent her, and getting her money back. I worry Ebay will side totally with the buyer without question, because short of having filmed the process, which seems totally ridiculous to me and incredibly onerous, I can't prove what I sent her. So buyer will get a free upgrade. From what you guys are saying, It seems when it's he said she said, the buyer will always prevail.

NOTE: Please do not post the buyers full name or address as I do not feel that at this point it should be public.

 

What state do you live in, what state/city is the buyer in? You have their address, call the local police department or sheriffs department in their town and file a claim for interstate fraud (federal offense). If it's a small town it's amazing what a cop knocking on their front door and asking for a statement they write down in the little notepad does.  Speak with the local prosecutor in her town/county and find out what recourse you have to file a interstate fraud transaction. Make sure to take notes of peoples names, titles and times you speak. If possible open a "case" so you have a case number with someone, any case number will do. Once you have some info, send a note though ebay messages with a detailed description of the steps you are taking, people you have spoken to etc. It may work, it may not, but you dont have many other options and you really just want the buyer to go away. In reality, it's such a small amount of money and fraud that nothing can be done, but it may work if you just scare the buyer that you're going to go after them any way you can on principals not about the money.

 

Just my 2 cents.


Edited by Brianpore - 1/3/13 at 7:25am
post #1779 of 18110
Quote:
Originally Posted by 83glt View Post

What is to prevent a buyer of let's say a Kiton suit, turning around and saying I sent them a bag of rags, filing a SNAD claim, getting a refund, mailing me back a box of rags and keeping my Kiton suit? As I understand it, shipping insurance will cover loss or damage, but not transplanted contents. Short of actually filming the packaging AND physical shipping of the item (which even then probably wouldn't be enough for ebay), how can one as a seller defend against this most sinister scam?
For the record, I have recently been the victim of this twice in the past month, on top of 3 non-paying bidders. I don't sell anymore like I used to, but it appears ebay has really devolved into the wild west. What can be done?
BTW, if the answer is there is nothing that can be done, and that it's just part of the risk of selling on ebay, then as far as I'm concerned it's open season and why wouldn't anyone just go on a free shopping spree? Does ebay have a limit to how many SNAD claims a buyer can make before they catch on?

I think it would depend on the seller and buyer. For example, the seller has a nice setup that they have clearly invested time and money into - male/female forms, lights, good photos, etc. Now look at their history, they're selling items on a regular basis. Why would they risk a continual stream of income by shipping someone a box of rags? It makes no sense, unless the payoff was astronomical (i.e., you created this business for the sole purpose of eventually selling a $50,000 item and then bailing). That would be my argument.
post #1780 of 18110
Quote:
Originally Posted by 83glt View Post

Just to be clear, let me give you the main examples I'm dealing with. If nothing else there might be lessons here that everyone can draw from.
I sold a 3rd Gen iPad, used about 2 months. Mint condition in every respect. Buyer receives it and says it's 2nd Gen which is total bullshit. She's now threatening to file a claim and I fear she will send me back what I assume is her old 2nd Gen iPad, keeping the near new 3rd Gen I just sent her, and getting her money back. I worry Ebay will side totally with the buyer without question, because short of having filmed the process, which seems totally ridiculous to me and incredibly onerous, I can't prove what I sent her. So buyer will get a free upgrade. From what you guys are saying, It seems when it's he said she said, the buyer will always prevail.
The other buyer basically opened the box to remove the items (a mixed lot) that he wanted (and the most valuable), leaving the rest, and saying the box was damaged and contents lost during shipment (I very stupidly did not purchase insurance this time). This dude is totally sketchy. He's registered in China but claims he lives in Canada, and the package was in the hands of a "forwarding company" before USPS noted it as delivered through their delivery confirmation, so he or at least someone under his direction had access to the package before it was noted as delivered (I printed the USPS status page at the time to show this). I'm still fighting this one, but the best thing I have going for me is that the buyer, in an early email, specified precisely how he wanted me to package the items as he wasn't interested in most of them and wanted the desirable items to be packaged in the center of the package to be protected by the less desirable items "should something happen." So if the package was damaged in transit as he claimed, there's a good chance that the more desirable items will still be there, or at least mostly. If all the items that he wanted are exactly the ones missing from the package then it's highly suspect. In addition, even though he claims he uses a "forwarding company", the address he gave me is not a business address. He has 100% positive feedback, and I had no reason to worry. I'm going to fight it all the way. Any other ideas?

Were you the original owner of the 3rd gen iPad? Did you register it with apple and still have the serial? If so, and you get back her old crappy iPad, I would report yours stolen and forward all of the info to local authorities.
post #1781 of 18110
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanM View Post

Were you the original owner of the 3rd gen iPad? Did you register it with apple and still have the serial? If so, and you get back her old crappy iPad, I would report yours stolen and forward all of the info to local authorities.

Absolutely the original owner. We used the serial number in the listing and entered it into ebay's listing template to bring up all of the boilerplate info on the specifications. I think reporting it to authorities might be a recourse. I have her address after all. I was also thinking about civil legal action, but it would be limited to small claims. Maybe Judge Judy will take the case?
post #1782 of 18110
Quote:
Originally Posted by 83glt View Post

. He has 100% positive feedback, and I had no reason to worry. I'm going to fight it all the way. Any other ideas?

Is it possible for a buyer with feedback to have anything other than 100% positive?
post #1783 of 18110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post

Is it possible for a buyer with feedback to have anything other than 100% positive?

I guess that shows how long I've been on ebay. I remember the days when a seller could leave negative feedback for a buyer. Also, sometimes, in EXTREME cases, and where I feel it's warranted, I will leave positive feedback with negative comments, hoping to put a warning out to other sellers for a little while at least until that particular feedback gets bumped down the page. I've done it a couple times over the last few years, usually where the buyer dicks me around with payment.
post #1784 of 18110
Quote:
Originally Posted by 83glt View Post


Absolutely the original owner. We used the serial number in the listing and entered it into ebay's listing template to bring up all of the boilerplate info on the specifications. I think reporting it to authorities might be a recourse. I have her address after all. I was also thinking about civil legal action, but it would be limited to small claims. Maybe Judge Judy will take the case?

 

Civil remedy is nice in theory, but for such an inexpensive item, a very costly one to enforce. You would likely have to go to her place of residence to follow suit for jurisdiction ($$), pay to have her served process (more $$) and then pay the court filing fees (yet again, more $$). Finally, once you obtain judgment you will have to enforce it in some manner (more time and probably more $$).

 

I think filing the criminal action can actually get your property back to you faster, assuming the authorities where she lives are worth a darn. The threat alone of the patrol to the house may change things drastically as compared to some process server.

post #1785 of 18110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolfan954 View Post

 

Civil remedy is nice in theory, but for such an inexpensive item, a very costly one to enforce. You would likely have to go to her place of residence to follow suit for jurisdiction ($$), pay to have her served process (more $$) and then pay the court filing fees (yet again, more $$). Finally, once you obtain judgment you will have to enforce it in some manner (more time and probably more $$).

 

I think filing the criminal action can actually get your property back to you faster, assuming the authorities where she lives are worth a darn. The threat alone of the patrol to the house may change things drastically as compared to some process server.

 

Plus, you'd have to personally appear for any procedures (most jurisdictions don't allow for attorneys to represent small claims litigants) so figure travel costs into the mix (if you could have an attorney rep you, that would obviously be a cost issue).  The criminal complaint is a mixed bag and depends on the local authorities, which in my experience not likely to take any action.

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