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Non-Rule "Rules" - Page 15

post #211 of 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas View Post

I can't do it. I've tried and feel uncomfortable. Now, a bright (e.g. orange) sweater, I don't mind so much.
I had a remarkably similar jacket about 20 years ago - same color and pattern (but Burberry). Never, ever wore it. Part of it was likely my youth, but even now I doubt I would pull it off the hanger.

you should give it a try, if its anything like the above, it must be beautiful. smile.gif
Quote:
I have green ties: I never, ever reach for them. Probably after-shocks of parochial education.
Loafers are not happening for me, at all, ever. I require laces.

these make me sad. frown.gif green ties and loafers are both awesome.

sidebar - nice to see you in MC, i havent seen you here almost at all since i joined.

however, i have no context of imagining you in dress clothes, just smiling on a jet ski. you should post a fit here and there.
post #212 of 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bounder View Post

Now that almost everyone's here -- I expect Vox will be along shortly -- perhaps we should see about making this threak epic.
I have gone after Spoo on occasion myself. But he has improved quite a bit since he first started posting. So I think there is hope for him. Since I started on this forum, though, you haven't even changed your shoes.
Spoo may have an entirely too-wide comfort zone but yours is entirely too narrow, especially for anyone to ever consider emulating. In a way, you are one of the worst dressers here because you don't actually dress at all. You have said yourself that your goal is to reduce your wardrobe to a uniform so you can wear the same thing all the time. I find that utterly sad and a great waste.
It is a pity because it doesn't have to be that way. You have an outstanding eye for fit and a great deal of general sartorial knowledge. If you could break out a bit, you could rival Manton in his ability to produce outstanding CBD that is both elegant and memorable.

IMO, Spoo's post lead more people down the path of bad taste, and waste than Foo ever will. This is not Spoo's fault or something he intends. He burns through clothing and shoes at a rapid rate. It is a combination of a want and need he has for these items and partially his growth as he learns more about how he wants to look. Unfortunately a think a lot of his followers have just taken into buying the labels and not on working on the basics. Even

While Foo's OneShoe philosophy was controversial it has lead me to a series of "ONE" items.

First I started with the OneShoe. I have a last in a couple of makers that I am vey comfortable with and it helps detract me from buying sale items that I don't need in hopes that they will fit. So to the shoe fanatics I lead a very boring shoe life
I have sold/selling 95% of my ties. I realized they did not fit properly. I went to Hober, found my length, and width. The OneTie for me.The same will go with other items, as I become more comfortable with the fit and sizing. To the Tom Ford ties are on sale bunch, again I am very boring.

Even his latest DB jacket from R. I do not like it, but instead of jumping on the "I hate it, you look like an idiot" bandwagon I looked at what can I get out of it. That jacket started making me question gorge placement for future a future DB.

Foo may be full of contradictions, when he says the doesn't care about dressing and clothing and then writing obsessively about them, but if you read between the lines there is a to to take away.

Anyway, as stated earlier, just my opinion.
post #213 of 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

I think there may be something else to the no navy trouser thing.
For many decades before WW2 by far the most common suit was blue serge. Men who only owned one suit owned a blue serge. It was their "Sunday best." They would often wear them as separates, and more often the pants seperatly since working class men really had no call for odd jackets. So blue pants got a lower class connotation.
If you read Depression era literature such as Steinbek and Dos Passos, many of the lower class/working class characters will be described as wearing blue serge pants.

It sounds reasonably.

If we are willing to go further back in time, The Record of Fashion, another old English tailoring journal, has a more positive view on blue (navy) trousers. Things were different then, of course. Frock coats and cutaways were still around. However, 14th of June 1882 The Record Fashion reflects on "Current Styles" stating:

"Gentlemen of the higher classes wear trousers of the straight form [...] Blue trouserings are in favor, and very stylish they are."
post #214 of 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPHardy View Post

IMO, Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoo's post lead more people down the path of bad taste, and waste than Foo ever will. This is not Spoo's fault or something he intends. He burns through clothing and shoes at a rapid rate. It is a combination of a want and need he has for these items and partially his growth as he learns more about how he wants to look. Unfortunately a think a lot of his followers have just taken into buying the labels and not on working on the basics. Even
While Foo's OneShoe philosophy was controversial it has lead me to a series of "ONE" items.
First I started with the OneShoe. I have a last in a couple of makers that I am vey comfortable with and it helps detract me from buying sale items that I don't need in hopes that they will fit. So to the shoe fanatics I lead a very boring shoe life
I have sold/selling 95% of my ties. I realized they did not fit properly. I went to Hober, found my length, and width. The OneTie for me.The same will go with other items, as I become more comfortable with the fit and sizing. To the Tom Ford ties are on sale bunch, again I am very boring.
Even his latest DB jacket from R. I do not like it, but instead of jumping on the "I hate it, you look like an idiot" bandwagon I looked at what can I get out of it. That jacket started making me question gorge placement for future a future DB.
Foo may be full of contradictions, when he says the doesn't care about dressing and clothing and then writing obsessively about them, but if you read between the lines there is a to to take away.
Anyway, as stated earlier, just my opinion.

almost ever, it is painful to read. just my opinion.

manton's comments to it are almost ever entertaining. he is used to write. this is a big difference
post #215 of 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bounder View Post

Spoo may have an entirely too-wide comfort zone but yours is entirely too narrow, especially for anyone to ever consider emulating.

I am comfortable with quite a lot. I just choose much more deliberately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bounder View Post

In a way, you are one of the worst dressers here because you don't actually dress at all. You have said yourself that your goal is to reduce your wardrobe to a uniform so you can wear the same thing all the time. I find that utterly sad and a great waste.

It seems we fundamentally disagree on what it means to dress well. I would not mistake my approach and attitude toward clothing as a disinterest in dressing or being stylish. In fact, I think constantly attempting to aesthetically re-invent oneself is inherently destructive to style. The inability to commit is an inability to take real risk (and reap real reward), and demonstrates a lack of fundamental taste for what is good over what is bad. I am not always right, but I endeavor to be.

Some of the best dressers I know of would make you quite sad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bounder View Post

It is a pity because it doesn't have to be that way. You have an outstanding eye for fit and a great deal of general sartorial knowledge. If you could break out a bit, you could rival Manton in his ability to produce outstanding CBD that is both elegant and memorable.

Manton is a great dresser, but he and I dress very differently and I would not have it any other way. If you think I simply "dress" to a lesser degree than him, I think you've got things wrong. Like me, Manton has very strong preferences and recurrent practices. He will be the first to tell you that he dresses very similarly day to day, year to year. I don't know how you can have missed that after seeing so many of his outfits.

Also, it is ironic, because I find the notion of CBD over-restricting and too formalistic. It's a way of getting many less astute dressers to fall into an acceptable range, but it will never be more than that. Manton himself excels because he is more than simply CBD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPHardy View Post

Foo may be full of contradictions, when he says the doesn't care about dressing and clothing and then writing obsessively about them, but if you read between the lines there is a to to take away.
Anyway, as stated earlier, just my opinion.

I care a great deal on a macro level, but try to minimize effort on a micro level.
post #216 of 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPHardy View Post

IMO, Spoo's post lead more people down the path of bad taste, and waste than Foo ever will. This is not Spoo's fault or something he intends. He burns through clothing and shoes at a rapid rate.

To try and steer this back to the original point of this thread, clearly Foo has got a lot of "rules" for his personal dress, having converged to a quite proscribed range of fits, while Spoo has very few rules, and is more willing to experiment. Some of this is due to differences in personality, perhaps some due to differences in tenure on SF, perhaps some due to differences in amount of time spent thinking about and wearing tailored clothing. And perhaps some due to differences in personal appearance. Spoo seems like the type that will look at least pretty good in just about anything.

But I think these polar opposites exhibit some of the advantages and dis-advantages of having these personal non-rule "rules". However in foo.gif's case, and the case of many others who have posted ITT, I think it's important to note that these are personal rules that he has cultivated over time through careful thought and observation, and which accord to his own tastes. They are not rules that he has been given by the internet and accepted as restraints on his own personal aesthetic. This is important.
post #217 of 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

It seems we fundamentally disagree on what it means to dress well. I would not mistake my approach and attitude toward clothing as a disinterest in dressing or being stylish. In fact, I think constantly attempting to aesthetically re-invent oneself is inherently destructive to style. The inability to commit is an inability to take real risk (and reap real reward), and demonstrates a lack of fundamental taste for what is good over what is bad. I am not always right, but I endeavor to be.

I don't think one philosophy is inherently better than another here. There will be Prince Michael of Kents and Dukes of Windsor, Mondrians and Picassos, Willie Nelsons and Bob Dylans.
post #218 of 769
Thread Starter 
People are mistaking foo's long-ago comment that he wants to be able to get dressed without thinking about it as a statement that he doens't care. No. It's precisely that he does care, he wants a wardrobe where he can effortlessly put stuff together and it will look good.

His advice about "outfits", while not original (ahem), is important here. If you have a bunch of stuff that only goes with this or that and always has to be worn together, then you are spending your money unwisely and dressing poorly. You should be able to reach into your closet and with only a few seconds' thought be able to put together an ensemble that works, grabbing almost anything. Any one piece should be easily swappable for something else, and the whole will still work. If you can't do that, your wardrobe needs considerable work.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
post #219 of 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

People are mistaking foo's long-ago comment that he wants to be able to get dressed without thinking about it as a statement that he doens't care. No. It's precisely that he does care, he wants a wardrobe where he can effortlessly put stuff together and it will look good.
His advice about "outfits", while not original (ahem), is important here. If you have a bunch of stuff that only goes with this or that and always has to be worn together, then you are spending your money unwisely and dressing poorly. You should be able to reach into your closet and with only a few seconds' thought be able to put together an ensemble that works, grabbing almost anything. Any one piece should be easily swappable for something else, and the whole will still work. If you can't do that, your wardrobe needs considerable work.
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

is it not fine to have plenty of things that coherently match one or two other things? when you grab a certain SC you know, i wear this with these pants, or this suit goes with one of these 3 ties...

as long is one is dressed coherently, and has enough variety in their wardrobe that they arent wearing literally the same few things every week, what is the issue?
post #220 of 769
White dress shirts or french cuffs with sportcoats

The use of silk polka dot squares

The use of solid silk squares in anything other than white

Suits with more than two secondary colors
post #221 of 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLibourel View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Casual summer suit with unbuttoned shirt is fine by me, though I'd strongly prefer that shirt to have a button-down collar.

But of course! That almost goes without saying.

I strongly dislike button-down collars.

Is this type of collar an American phenomenon? I don't remember seeing the Europeans follow that rule.
post #222 of 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by whnay. View Post

White dress shirts or french cuffs with sportcoats
The use of silk polka dot squares
The use of solid silk squares in anything other than white
Suits with more than two secondary colors

I feel that a white square should be linen and never silk.
post #223 of 769
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

is it not fine to have plenty of things that coherently match one or two other things? when you grab a certain SC you know, i wear this with these pants, or this suit goes with one of these 3 ties...
as long is one is dressed coherently, and has enough variety in their wardrobe that they arent wearing literally the same few things every week, what is the issue?
The issue is, everything is matchy. This is not garanimals hour. We are adults. That kind of matchiness will look cheesy to those with a trained eye. Do you think Astaire and Grant dressed like that? They didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HORNS View Post

I strongly dislike button-down collars.
Is this type of collar an American phenomenon? I don't remember seeing the Europeans follow that rule.
The English don't but the Italians, especially in the South, do tend to wear BDs with jackets, and even with suits.
post #224 of 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

People are mistaking foo's long-ago comment that he wants to be able to get dressed without thinking about it as a statement that he doens't care. No. It's precisely that he does care, he wants a wardrobe where he can effortlessly put stuff together and it will look good.
His advice about "outfits", while not original (ahem), is important here. If you have a bunch of stuff that only goes with this or that and always has to be worn together, then you are spending your money unwisely and dressing poorly. You should be able to reach into your closet and with only a few seconds' thought be able to put together an ensemble that works, grabbing almost anything. Any one piece should be easily swappable for something else, and the whole will still work. If you can't do that, your wardrobe needs considerable work.
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Yes, exactly. I feel so understood. I could cry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

is it not fine to have plenty of things that coherently match one or two other things? when you grab a certain SC you know, i wear this with these pants, or this suit goes with one of these 3 ties...
as long is one is dressed coherently, and has enough variety in their wardrobe that they arent wearing literally the same few things every week, what is the issue?

The issue is that failing to conceptualize a wardrobe, as opposed to individual outfits, tends to correlate with one's inability to conceptualize the way things go together in the first place--both from a purely aesthetic point of view, and from a more formalistic, contextual perspective. It means the person doesn't really have a coherent way of thinking about dress, and decides everything off-the-cuff (often fooling himself into believing he's been inventive or creative). Is it impossible for such a person to come up with a good looking outfit? No. But it is far less likely that he will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whnay. View Post

White dress shirts or french cuffs with sportcoats
The use of silk polka dot squares
The use of solid silk squares in anything other than white
Suits with more than two secondary colors

Did you just assassinate the cream silk square? I can't believe you'd ever wear white silk. It shouldn't exist.
post #225 of 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Did you just assassinate the cream silk square? I can't believe you'd ever wear white silk. It shouldn't exist.
Cream is about the only other variant that would be acceptable to me. But no one makes cream squares anymore except Charvet...
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