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Non-Rule "Rules" - Page 13

post #181 of 772

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post #182 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

The jacket should go well with your beige pants too. Or mid-grey trousers. Really, if a jacket doesn't go well with mid-grey trousers, I'm not sure it should be a jacket.
Yeah, I agree with that. I guess I just wasn't sure if a brown jacket should be paired with mid-greys or light greys or if you should stick with beige shades.

Also, you'd do a brown shoe with a brown jacket and mid-grey pants right? Not black shoes? Would burgundy/oxblood shoes also be an option?

After this I will probably just read the WAYWRN thread every day and make note of the outfits people seem to compliment to start putting together ideas in my head of what I'd like to wear.
post #183 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by TM79 View Post

Also, you'd do a brown shoe with a brown jacket and mid-grey pants right? Not black shoes? Would burgundy/oxblood shoes also be an option?

Without seeing your shade of brown and the mid-grey pants, it's hard to say. I don't think I'd categorically deny that black or oxblood shoes can be worn with grey trousers and a brown SC to positive effect, but brown seems the easier option. Consider suede especially.
post #184 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by TM79 View Post

Yeah, I agree with that. I guess I just wasn't sure if a brown jacket should be paired with mid-greys or light greys or if you should stick with beige shades.

Brown and gray is a classic combination. Light gray flannel trousers can be worn with virtually anything and should be considered a cool weather staple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TM79 View Post

Also, you'd do a brown shoe with a brown jacket and mid-grey pants right? Not black shoes? Would burgundy/oxblood shoes also be an option?

Brown or burgundy shoes would work quite well. Never black with an odd jacket ensemble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TM79 View Post

After this I will probably just read the WAYWRN thread every day and make note of the outfits people seem to compliment to start putting together ideas in my head of what I'd like to wear.

If you want to learn, stay away from WAYWRN.
post #185 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by sullivan025 View Post

Flip flops with suits are a no-no in my book.

 

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post #186 of 772
Thread Starter 
I think there may be something else to the no navy trouser thing.

For many decades before WW2 by far the most common suit was blue serge. Men who only owned one suit owned a blue serge. It was their "Sunday best." They would often wear them as separates, and more often the pants seperatly since working class men really had no call for odd jackets. So blue pants got a lower class connotation.

If you read Depression era literature such as Steinbek and Dos Passos, many of the lower class/working class characters will be described as wearing blue serge pants.
post #187 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Never black with an odd jacket ensemble.

Hmm not a bad idea...I personally almost never wear black shoes, during the day pretty much categorically never, but I don't ever really wear a business suit either. I'll have to be on the lookout for pictures of odd jacket ensembles with black shoes where a brown shoe would not be an improvement.
post #188 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

Hmm not a bad idea...I personally almost never wear black shoes, during the day pretty much categorically never, but I don't ever really wear a business suit either. I'll have to be on the lookout for pictures of odd jacket ensembles with black shoes where a brown shoe would not be an improvement.

Not really an innovation of my own. It's just good sense. Look for a well-dressed man in an odd jacket. Look at his shoes. See how many times they are black.
post #189 of 772
I was going to post the Brooks Brothers link but apparently the jacket sold out or has been removed from the site. A shame, because I liked it a lot. It was a pretty rich/dark brown Fitzgerald cut windowpane with a little bit of subtle blue running throughit. It definitely would never be called a beige/tan color by anyone.

Now they have some check/deco ones on there in browns but nothing close enough for me to post a link as a comparison. I looked like a fall/winter jacket anyway so I am hoping it resurfaces.

mafoofan - I agree there's a lot of "eh" stuff in there but I think SpooPoker's pictures are always excellent, although he always seems to wear suits so it wouldn't be too beneficial to what I am hoping to accomplish. Would you recommend any sites or threads where I could get some good visuals of odd jacket combos? Also, thanks for the responses you've been giving and thanks to the others, too. All the replies seem to be very similar which is good to see.
post #190 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Well, unfortunately, one generally gets what one pays for. You can't judge pleated trousers unless you've tried a proper specimen first.

Perhaps another personal non-rule-rule for myself is that I pay only what I can afford! I'm unlikely to sport a proper bespoke specimen of anything!

I do have a serious rule, however. I won't wear a cotton t-shirt when I run. I realise this isn't a fancy sartorial rule, though. I also refuse to wear athletic socks higher than my ankle.
post #191 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

I think there may be something else to the no navy trouser thing.
For many decades before WW2 by far the most common suit was blue serge. Men who only owned one suit owned a blue serge. It was their "Sunday best." They would often wear them as separates, and more often the pants seperatly since working class men really had no call for odd jackets. So blue pants got a lower class connotation.
If you read Depression era literature such as Steinbek and Dos Passos, many of the lower class/working class characters will be described as wearing blue serge pants.

Very interesting. Certainly, as someone noted above, the No. 1 association is with auto mechanics.
post #192 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Not really an innovation of my own. It's just good sense. Look for a well-dressed man in an odd jacket. Look at his shoes. See how many times they are black.

Excepting of course, formal and semi-formal morning dress as well as its modern cousins?
post #193 of 772
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

Excepting of course, formal and semi-formal morning dress as well as its modern cousins?
Yes, because those still use the black/white/gray/silver color palate.
post #194 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by TM79 View Post

mafoofan - I agree there's a lot of "eh" stuff in there but I think SpooPoker's pictures are always excellent . . .

That is certainly the popular opinion here, but you will find that many of the better informed members would strongly disagree. Sorry Spoo--you seem like a nice guy, but you dress poorly, and it doesn't have to be that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TM79 View Post

Would you recommend any sites or threads where I could get some good visuals of odd jacket combos? Also, thanks for the responses you've been giving and thanks to the others, too. All the replies seem to be very similar which is good to see.

Think less about finding "combos." We are not women. We don't buy outfits. We build wardrobes. Buy staples that can be easily paired. Learn to do that by picking up "rules" and learning what is classic. You will naturally develop your own taste and eccentricities over time without trying to grow a personality.

For fall/winter trousers: buy many, many pairs in light or medium grey. Flannel or twill are very versatile. The former arguably looks and feels better, but the latter is harder wearing and perhaps easier to take care of. You can wear grey trousers with pretty much any jacket without having to think hard about it.

For jackets, concentrate on simple, staple patterns with brown and tan backgrounds. Preferably, these jackets should be in rough, textured cloth appropriate for odd jackets. Anything smooth and fine is wrong. Get a navy blue blazer.

Shirts: light blue should be your staple. Again, can be worn with anything. Branch out with some blue/white patterned shirts (checks, stripes, etc.). Reserve other colors for when you have built up enough of a foundation and have mastered putting it to use. Reserve white shirts for business formal dress. Don't wear them with odd jackets.

Shoes: don't feel the need to buy many black pairs, though you should have one pair of black cap toes (punch caps if you like) for when you want to look the most business formal possible (to go with your white shirt). Instead, pick up many brown and burgundy shoes. In my opinion medium to dark brown, along with cordovan, are the the most versatile. Lighter browns and warmer chestnut-oriented hues can be very striking and beautiful, but are often harder to wear because they stand out more (they don't work well with dark grey suits, for example).

Done. More or less.
post #195 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

The correct answer for trousers worn with any odd jacket is the same 99% of the time: light to medium solid gray. Gray trousers pair well with almost everything, except for grey odd jackets, which are an odd duck and arguably shouldn't exist in the first place.
Don't over think it. Gray.

Yes. I made the mistake of ordering dark gray trousers before I knew better. Never wear them. A blight in my wardrobe.
I think if you dive too much into what is objectively justifiable, you will not find much here. It's just a matter of what is orthodox. Like saying "Hello" instead of making up your own word. It is what it is, even if there is immediately obvious good reason for why we say "hello" instead of something else.
That said, there have always been grey trousers, as well as grey suits, so it's not a good analogy. Traditionally, navy blue was reserved for suits and blazers. Simple as that.

Your orthodoxy and my associationalism are quite close concepts. My argument (as per the navy blazer) would be that orthodoxy changes, sometimes dramatically. I'll give you that in the 1920s somehow grey got picked for grey flannels as the orthodox colour for the trousers worn in the new trendy casual odd jacket and grey flannels look. But these days, if I see two guys in plain worsted "office pants", similarly dressed, but one in grey and one in navy, I at least don't find the navy ones more objectionable than the grey ones.

Consider also the tooothbrush moustache. Perfectly acceptable (Chaplin) throughout the 1920s. Dropped of "orthodox" following the invasion of Poland.
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