On pattern coordination between jacket/shirt/tie.......................



Manton said:

Keep in mind that ed's purpose of this thread is to show how to combine 3 patterns--coat, shirt, tie. The fact is, a checked jacket and shirt CAN work but 99.9% of the time it is better with a solid tie. Ed would probably agree but that's still outiside the purpose of this thread.

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Somehow in this case to me a big stripe on the tie fits well and ties the two checks together better than a solid could. But I guess it might vary fit to fit.

OD/OT:

I don't mind those looks, tbh, though I suspect they will have some detractors on this thread. That said, they strike me as wearing uncomfortably warm for a 21st century office building, no?



unbelragazzo said:

Somehow in this case to me a big stripe on the tie fits well and ties the two checks together better than a solid could. But I guess it might vary fit to fit.

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In addition to scale, other factors also come into play: color, texture, sheen, vibrancy, etc.



cptjeff said:

On that last one? You need a much larger scale check. The size of the pattern on the shirt and jacket is way too close, which is what makes eyes bleed. And a simple one, not gingham.
You're best off with a shirt like this:

Maybe a butcher stripe or something.
I think you were thinking the large check on the jacket was the pattern to judge the scale with. It's really not, in that case. There's a lot of activity within that large check, at almost exactly the scale of the shirt's pattern. So step back and tone the shirt down, and go with a larger scale pattern.
Though if you're not set on mixing three patterns, I would recommend a plain shirt, and using the suit and the tie for the pattern. Stick to two patterns until you know what you're doing.

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No offense, cptjeff, but this shirt is hideous.

I agree with you and mafoofan that scale variance and texture (not sure if you mentioned this not?) are the most important elements when combining 3+ patterns. I'd also rarely do more than two of the same patterns, regardless of scale (stripes/stripes/stripes, etc.)

An attempt to illustrate my previous comment...apologies for the terrible pictures, but given that it's Manton, I hope he can sympathize:



the jacket has a large check, seen better in this photo:



cptjeff said:

.
Though if you're not set on mixing three patterns, I would recommend a plain shirt, and using the suit and the tie for the pattern. Stick to two patterns until you know what you're doing.

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I think you and others are missing the point. This isn't a "help Ed dress in multiple patterns" thread. I don't dress this way. I dress incredibly boring. I wear solid blue shirts and solid navy ties 90% of the time that I dress up. I do not wear pocket squares. When I wear a loud jacket, everything else I put on is as loud as a whimper. I don't wear blue or green shoes, double monks, fun socks, beads etc etc. Olddog is perfect for this thread for example. The hope is that people (who like to wear patterns) come here, look at outfits and suggestions on scale, color cordination etc and improve their looks.



edmorel said:

The hope is that people (who like to wear patterns) come here, look at outfits and suggestions on scale, color cordination etc and improve their looks.

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To dream . . .



Jackie Treehorn said:

OD/OT:
I don't mind those looks, tbh, though I suspect they will have some detractors on this thread. That said, they strike me as wearing uncomfortably warm for a 21st century office building, no?

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I wore these combinations on two of the four or five days last winter that the outdoor temperatures in DC made them practical. In my office, which I keep on the chilly side, I shed my jacket unless I have visitors and was comfortable with the vests on and buttoned.

Manton said:

Ties for odd jackets should be casual. I don't like macclesfield or businessy or (worst of all) very formal wedding ties with odd jackets, the only exception would be a blazer and grays.
At the upper end of the formality scale would be an ancient madder. I tend not to wear my other Cappelli/Marinella foulards. Wovens, never. If it's spring summer, linen or linen blends are good, if winter, wool or cashmere.
But still my default with any jacket is always a knit.

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Manton - I'm sorry if this is outside the scope of the thread, but what would your position be on solid grenadines with a blazer or blue odd jacket? This is a combination I adopt quite often, and I don't think it is unduly formal. But I would appreciate your view.

Manton said:

I never do this any more. The closest I get is a mircopattern in the suit like a sharkskin which is solid from a distance.
I think your first two are OK, the last the tones are too close.
Anyway, I am an old man who wears solids 99% of the time.

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I agree with the first 2 suits can work but the rest looks boring. I'll wear 1 or 2 patterned pieces but not all three.

Ed, this thread is a great idea. However, your first post was three out of three combinations I wouldn't have done either. It's a tricky subject, but one raised repeatedly over the years. A lot of the people who say they don't like combinations such as these simply don't like complex combinations in general, rather than don't like some in particular, and I feel those people have less to tell me. To a potentially sudden silence, I think Vox falls into that category. It's an aesthetic thing, not a criticism.

I think that in using examples without pocket squares, you're missing part of the complexity.

Generally, I prefer separation - a solid shirt between obviously patterned tie and jacket. But this is negotiable if the shirt isn't overly mimicking the pattern of either tie or jacket. You can have a striped shirt with a striped suit/or striped tie with striped shirt, but they should be very different stripes - maybe different in intensity (more pale/less pale) or thickness, or a mixture. Or I might use texture instead of pattern - making the tie knitted or grenadine, for example. You can have a patterned tie on a gingham shirt, but not if the patterns begin to resemble the lines or size of the gingham.

When threads like this come up, people try to be friendly about it by only putting up either good examples, or their own questionable examples. I think people can learn more from bad examples running alongside the good. In an annual thread, I put up two posts of examples I considered generally good outfits (including good combinations):
www.styleforum.net/t/281750/waywrn-2011/0_50#post_5150290

and a post of examples of bad pattern combinations:
http://www.styleforum.net/t/281750/waywrn-2011/0_50#post_5150290

(Content for each: https://picasaweb.google.com/RJEbuysell/SF2011Shortlist https://picasaweb.google.com/RJEbuysell/Dislike )

I think the examples o/o put up in this thread are terrible; however, I have several great examples by him in the thread above.

FWIW, I add these to the pool for general discussion, although I now think a couple are borderline - and maybe not on the right side of the border:

I am lukewarm on grenadines and I won't wear them with odd jackets.

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WADR, if the jacket is solid, it doens't count for this thread.