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that pesky roll below the collar

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
That is how most folks refer to it. But it's also called a bump, a pucker, etc.

What it is, is too much length at the upper back. [see the tutorial].
Its caused by those who have an erect posture. Or it can also be caused
by those with average posture who carry their head and neck in an
erect position.

The alteration is called shortening the back: excess cloth is
removed at the top of the back as shown by the dotted lines.
The operation involves moving the collar and changing the
shoulder seams. This covers most minor cases.
Major cases call for major heroics, a later thread.

405
post #2 of 18
Ahh, the OTR Pesky Collar Roll which provides that little extra fabric to accommodate the humps of the ever-increasing numbers of video game playing simians who walk among us and in larger cities, may possibly out-number the Homo Erectus*. They are easy to spot by their Topy'd knuckles.

132

*Clarification: 'Homo Erectus', for the sake of the younger of our viewing audience, does not mean horny gay men but from the Latin, meaning 'upright man' or if you wish, it could mean the former. All is fine.
Edited by MyOtherLife - 6/28/12 at 10:18pm
post #3 of 18
it seems that most tailors just lower the collar....rather than shorten the back from the top....or is that different names for the same operation? I know I need this done on every jacket I have.
post #4 of 18
I also have to have this done on every jacket. I would though caution anyone needing this alteration done. It's not an operation to be done by the girl at the mall, or cleaners , who can hem your pants. Find a good " real " tailor ( one who also custom makes a suit ), who has good knowledge and experience in their trade. Not done right, can reallly F up a jacket --- voice of experience.
Roger
post #5 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraMagnetical View Post

it seems that most tailors just lower the collar....rather than shorten the back from the top....or is that different names for the same operation? I know I need this done on every jacket I have.
if the amount is small, like a quarter inch, then lowering may work out.

if the tailor says that he is going to shorten the back, the customer says,
what are you going to do? then the tailor must go through a long
drawn out explanation of the process. but the tailor is busy earning a
living, and has no time for chatter. its easier to say lower the collar.

actually when the back is shortened, the collar is returned to a new
lower position.
post #6 of 18
Is this an expensive process? I am contemplating returning my suit because of that ugly roll.
post #7 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verniza View Post

Is this an expensive process? I am contemplating returning my suit because of that ugly roll.

is this from a ready to wear store? if so you might talk them into doing it for free.
or at least a token charge.
i have seen locals charge an average of $40 for the back shortened.
post #8 of 18
Could you explain if there are a variety of ways to have this alternation done for different situations? I've looked into this because it seems like I need this done for all my coats. However, the last time I had a tailor do this it came back still with a roll. I had them shorten it a bit more and it actually made the collar pull down so it became shorter (you can see the felt from behind the collar show). I definitely want to avoid this happening again.
post #9 of 18
There are several variables to this.
If you lower the collar/shorten the back 1/4" to 3/8" the tailor may not need to open the sleeve and will start about 1 to 1 1/2" form the sleeve head. If you lower more than that you need to open the sleeves on both sides to get a clean, smooth shoulder line. This is a good deal more work and takes much more time. This is difficult to do as it is a rather confining area to work in. Sometimes you have to add fullness on the back part and need to increase the back shoulder width. Usually you need to open the shoulder and just lower the back part when adjusting for an erect posture.

For square shoulders you may need to square both the front and back parts and sometimes need to shorten the collar as the neck hole gets smaller. Sometimes you need to remove more from the front or more from the back, depends on your shoulder. In some cases you need to shift the shoulder, moving the front towards the neck or away from the neck. This is much more work.

If the collar rises up and exposes the under collar melton it is because the collar is sitting lower on your neck which requires a longer circumference along the outside edge of the collar.

It is possible to lower the collar/shorten the back to get rid of the roll so much that the back becomes short and will flare up. Then you have to open the side seams and raise the back up. This is considerably more work. It also raises the gorge on the front.
post #10 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post

There are several variables to this.
If you lower the collar/shorten the back 1/4" to 3/8" the tailor may not need to open the sleeve and will start about 1 to 1 1/2" form the sleeve head. If you lower more than that you need to open the sleeves on both sides to get a clean, smooth shoulder line. This is a good deal more work and takes much more time. This is difficult to do as it is a rather confining area to work in. Sometimes you have to add fullness on the back part and need to increase the back shoulder width. Usually you need to open the shoulder and just lower the back part when adjusting for an erect posture.
For square shoulders you may need to square both the front and back parts and sometimes need to shorten the collar as the neck hole gets smaller. Sometimes you need to remove more from the front or more from the back, depends on your shoulder. In some cases you need to shift the shoulder, moving the front towards the neck or away from the neck. This is much more work.
If the collar rises up and exposes the under collar melton it is because the collar is sitting lower on your neck which requires a longer circumference along the outside edge of the collar.
It is possible to lower the collar/shorten the back to get rid of the roll so much that the back becomes short and will flare up. Then you have to open the side seams and raise the back up. This is considerably more work. It also raises the gorge on the front.

Wow. What are the chances that my tailor knows all this already? He seems to be pretty knowledgeable but I have not had him do any complicated alternations before.
post #11 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidus View Post

Could you explain if there are a variety of ways to have this alternation done for different situations? I've looked into this because it seems like I need this done for all my coats. However, the last time I had a tailor do this it came back still with a roll. I had them shorten it a bit more and it actually made the collar pull down so it became shorter (you can see the felt from behind the collar show). I definitely want to avoid this happening again.

from your description it sounds like he just lowered the collar only.
he did not take in the neck points. take another look at the diagram.
see how the removal of cloth is largest at the center. it then tapers
out on the shoulders toward the sleeves. that has to be done.
to just lower the collar alone pulls everything out of shape.
the collar comes down only enough to eliminate the roll.

alteration tailors prefer to do the small jobs thats where the
money is at. they can do many small jobs in the time it takes
to do one big job.
post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post

It is possible to lower the collar/shorten the back to get rid of the roll so much that the back becomes short and will flare up. Then you have to open the side seams and raise the back up. This is considerably more work. It also raises the gorge on the front.

Could you explain this a little more? I understand the idea that the back can end up shorter (I've done it), but I'm not quite sure what you mean by opening the sides and raising the back up. Would that not make it even shorter?
post #13 of 18
Sometimes squaring the back shoulder makes the back balance short and the jacket flares out, away from the body from the waist down to the hem. To remedy this you open the back part of the armholes a few inches on both sides of where the side seams go into the armholes. Next open the side seams, cloth and lining. Mark a new hem line on the back part the amount you want to raise the back, making the back longer. You will be limited by how much outlet you have available. lets say you make the back longer by 1/2". Now baste the back onto the side bodies from the new, matching the new longer hemline mark of the back to the original length of the fronts. This makes the back 1/2" longer than it was and corrects the short back balance. Two issues are created by this. The back gets longer but sometimes you might have too much over shoulder and create some wrinkles under the arms. I say sometimes, not always. If tis happens you either add a little pad to the area or open the shoulder and slope the back part. The other issue is the armhole just got 1/2' larger and you need a little extra fullness for the sleeve to fit the armhole again. SOmetimes it is there, sometimes not.

Atre you doing this work yourself?
post #14 of 18
Thank you.That's some good and useful detail for me. Yes I've done the work myself and on two occasions I've come up against the issue of the shorter back causing flair from the waist to the vents. Knowing that sometimes fiddling about in the wrong place trying to remedy things can cause even more problems, I thought I'd just probe this thread for a little knowledge. I've gone through pile of cheap thrift jackets performing this alteration before having a go on a suit I actually wear.
post #15 of 18
In a couple of instances when I have had this done - the lowering of a collar - it removed the roll, but ultimately resulted in what many call the "collar gap". The lowering of the collar has now caused it to sit lower on my neck/shoulders and thus creates that unwanted gap between my neck / shirt collar and the jacket collar. This can temporarily be alleviated up if I pull down on the front quarters of the jacket to re-position it flush against the neck. But after any movement, the jacket falls back off the neck due to my erect posture, I think. Any thoughts on correcting this collar gap issue?
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