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Most overpriced bespoke suits, Kiton or Brioni? - Page 3

post #31 of 42

^^^^I learn something new here every day.

post #32 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by KObalto View Post


Brioni>BB? Who knew?


I meant that its MUCH better not only better.

post #33 of 42
Still a bit of an understatement, no?
post #34 of 42
Some real gems of wisdom here. I can't even pick the best one to quote. One of my favorites is the claim that Starbucks sells good coffee.
post #35 of 42
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post #36 of 42
Amuses me how people just assume bespoke by "a certain tailor on Saville Row or in Italy" creams Brioni or Kiton into the ground. The concept that bespoke, by default, is superior to a branded product is one of the largest misconceptions people have about suiting.

I do agree that trad bespoke does carry a uniqueness and charm to it that may be lacking in a high end RTW / MTM or branded bespoke suit. But is traditional bespoke better across the whole board? Maybe, maybe not. Beauty being in the eye of the beholder and all that.....

Only a check book can provide an answer - if you want a bespoke piece made from the finest super "xxx" twine maybe with some vicuna chucked in, prepare for a highly costly experience just to replicate a particular Kiton garment. I doubt a bespoke suit made from super 200's wool from an internationally recognized tailor would end up much cheaper than actual Kiton piece. As for handwork - the bespoke piece will not necessarily indicate more is better. Sometimes yes, all the time, no.

Saville Row suits I have seen by Anderson Sheppard do not appear more handmade than Kiton to my own eye. However, one thing did stand out to my attention. The fabric and drape on a typically nice Kiton kicks Anderson's ass into the middle of next week. True this could be an apples to oranges comparison given the fabric is something that a customer would invoke his degree of freedom, where many traditionalists do not go for super thin wools coming out of some of the Italian mills.

My 2Cents. As for Kiton being expensive. Yes it is, move on, it is a brand name and few people outside of Styleforum would give them their dues if they (and others like them) countenance an edict where they must peddle their wares as part of a zero sum game. After all, what business wants to break even or take losses?
post #37 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klobber View Post

Amuses me how people just assume bespoke by "a certain tailor on Saville Row or in Italy" creams Brioni or Kiton into the ground. The concept that bespoke, by default, is superior to a branded product is one of the largest misconceptions people have about suiting.
I do agree that trad bespoke does carry a uniqueness and charm to it that may be lacking in a high end RTW / MTM or branded bespoke suit. But is traditional bespoke better across the whole board? Maybe, maybe not. Beauty being in the eye of the beholder and all that.....
Only a check book can provide an answer - if you want a bespoke piece made from the finest super "xxx" twine maybe with some vicuna chucked in, prepare for a highly costly experience just to replicate a particular Kiton garment. I doubt a bespoke suit made from super 200's wool from an internationally recognized tailor would end up much cheaper than actual Kiton piece. As for handwork - the bespoke piece will not necessarily indicate more is better. Sometimes yes, all the time, no.
Saville Row suits I have seen by Anderson Sheppard do not appear more handmade than Kiton to my own eye. However, one thing did stand out to my attention. The fabric and drape on a typically nice Kiton kicks Anderson's ass into the middle of next week. True this could be an apples to oranges comparison given the fabric is something that a customer would invoke his degree of freedom, where many traditionalists do not go for super thin wools coming out of some of the Italian mills.
My 2Cents. As for Kiton being expensive. Yes it is, move on, it is a brand name and few people outside of Styleforum would give them their dues if they (and others like them) countenance an edict where they must peddle their wares as part of a zero sum game. After all, what business wants to break even or take losses?

Well said. It has been said before, bespoke is no guarantee of sublime success. You are as much responsible, as your tailor, in designing a successful suit.

It is a road i look forward to taking one day, but it should not detract from the likes of Kiton or Brioni...
post #38 of 42
I understand that Kiton is handmade but i have to say that some of the stuff they do is down right sloppy.
Look at the stitching on the tag below.



I compared the construction of my Kiton pants with that of a Tom Ford, and truth be told, as much as i love Kiton, the TF won by a large margin.
Lots of sloppyness on the part of Kiton.
post #39 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by JubeiSpiegel View Post

Well said. It has been said before, bespoke is no guarantee of sublime success. You are as much responsible, as your tailor, in designing a successful suit.
It is a road i look forward to taking one day, but it should not detract from the likes of Kiton or Brioni...


I would love to enjoy that whole bespoke experience. Have yet to take the plunge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedric View Post

I understand that Kiton is handmade but i have to say that some of the stuff they do is down right sloppy.
Look at the stitching on the tag below.

I compared the construction of my Kiton pants with that of a Tom Ford, and truth be told, as much as i love Kiton, the TF won by a large margin.
Lots of sloppyness on the part of Kiton.

I would say the quality control person must have taken the day off here.

As for Tom Ford - made by Zegna to Zegna Couture standards. They are not considered to be that much below Kiton or Brioni either so what you say does not come as a surprise.
post #40 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQman View Post

Most so called brands are overpriced. Is a Patek really worth $500k? Probably not. Like someone else said, if you complaining about the price then these products are probably not targeting you. I'd argue though that a (very good) tailor has the same mark up percentage as these brands mentioned above. When I started out at the firm I'm with now I decided to get a decent suit. Not knowing that much about suiting I naturally gravitated to the big brands, I settled on a charcoal grey Gucci suit. I had it tailored at my local tailor. He said he'd do me a fully bespoke suit for R15 000 (South African Rand) more or less what I paid at Gucci. Granted, the quality and fit from my tailor is superior but his overall costs are very low and his mark up pretty high. He operated from his upmarket home and works alone so his overheads are minimal. However, I'm pretty sure the bespoke suit he made for me cost him no more than R3500 to produce, the rest is pure profit. Contrast that with the overheads of my local Gucci boutique, my tailor is also over charging. I'll be honest, if I could afford a Kiton I'd buy one (or three). I'd also argue that Kiton and Brioni are alot more understated than other brands such as Armani. I still get more compliments from people when they discover my grey suit is a Gucci than any of my fully bespoke numbers. My Louis Vuitton ties get more compliments than my Brioni ties. So I'd say overall these brands (Kiton and Brioni) are pretty understated.

Do you live in Asia?

In my home country, SEA, people would judge what it looks nice based mostly on the brand name, but NOT the style or material used.
post #41 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by benny View Post

Both are overpriced. You're paying for the brand name after all.


Could not agree with you more..

post #42 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Man View Post

Do you live in Asia?

In my home country, SEA, people would judge what it looks nice based mostly on the brand name, but NOT the style or material used.

No, I live in South Africa. I'm of European descent in case you're wondering. People in South Africa, especially the newly minted tend to be most impressed with labels. The higher end stuff can be hard to find and therefore isn't well known by most.
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