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Jobs in China. - Page 6

post #76 of 101
9/13/12 at 4:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AldenPyle View Post

Not at all true. Quite a few of the dads at the local international school are working class Britons and Australians who've made a go of it in Hong Kong. Make a good living, own nice houses, have nice families.

Made a go doing what? Legitimate business? Managing factories in Shenzhen? That's not what I'm referring to. I'm referring to TESL teachers, guest house owners, sexpats, bar owners, beach bums, etc. That's the lions share of expats you run into outside of the big cities and, by and large, they're losers.
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post #77 of 101
9/13/12 at 5:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Barrington View Post

Made a go doing what? Legitimate business? Managing factories in Shenzhen? That's not what I'm referring to. I'm referring to TESL teachers, guest house owners, sexpats, bar owners, beach bums, etc. That's the lions share of expats you run into outside of the big cities and, by and large, they're losers.

Different stuff. People own a couple of restaurants or manage them, sell some high-end transportation equipment or fix them. Pilots, obviously. A lot of ways to make a buck and there are many places foreigners might have a competitive advantage or special skills. And Singapore, its a higher order of magnitude.

The examples your listing are basically definitive losers + ESL teachers. I think it would be hard to make a long-term career of that w/o moving into management, but thats true of many professions.
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post #78 of 101
9/13/12 at 6:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AldenPyle View Post

Different stuff. People own a couple of restaurants or manage them, sell some high-end transportation equipment or fix them. Pilots, obviously. A lot of ways to make a buck and there are many places foreigners might have a competitive advantage or special skills. And Singapore, its a higher order of magnitude.
The examples your listing are basically definitive losers + ESL teachers. I think it would be hard to make a long-term career of that w/o moving into management, but thats true of many professions.

White collar and specialized professionals are obviously different. I'm not talking about the people you see walking out of the Four Seasons in Hong Kong. I'm talking about the expats you see outside of the major cities.
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post #79 of 101
9/13/12 at 8:24am
Hong Kong is not really one of those asian/ ESL teacher countries. I think that the salary for ESL is too low in HK for any foreigner to really do it for more than a year, they wouldn't be able to drink or go out.
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post #80 of 101
9/14/12 at 10:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eason View Post

Hong Kong is not really one of those asian/ ESL teacher countries. I think that the salary for ESL is too low in HK for any foreigner to really do it for more than a year, they wouldn't be able to drink or go out.

 

It's a former colony; honkies are still under heavy British cultural influence and still resist Chinese re education camps.

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post #81 of 101
9/15/12 at 7:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eason View Post

Being King of a junkyard still means you live in a junkyard. biggrin.gif
edit: I'm being unfairly dismissive here- if making money is your goal, then if you earn enough that you can save a significant amount of money then it could be worth it. If you can make 30,000 RMB a month, then you can live comfortably (in a big city, assuming) by saving 20k RMB a month. You can save about 37k USD a year by doing that, which is not bad. If simply making money and getting out is what you want though, the UAE will let you save twice as much.
Also, while my statements about China at large are extremely negative, I do appreciate the lifestyle and the work people like MikeDT do in the places far from the emperor. I promised myself I'd never go back to China, but I have a hankering to visit some far-off, clean, friendly places like just for the experience.

Do you mind elaborating on that 10k budget?

I looked at some cost of living websites (geared toward white collar expats I assume) and the figures started at 10k for a basic apartment..

I'm curious in the remote chance that I take a position in Beijing.
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post #82 of 101
9/15/12 at 11:59am
You can find decent (by Chinese standards) apts for ~3k in Beijing, at least you could 3 years ago. I had a 80m2 in Si Tong Qiao right on the subway and bus routes in Hai Dian district for 3k, it was an old Chinese style apt which had no heating, but that's standard in China. My brother lived in Chao Yang district and had a somewhat smaller place for around 2.5k. It's all to your standards, of course. My apt had 1 water valve with manual gas so you had to turn it on and all the water would be that temperature. If you showered and someone tried to turn on the kitchen tap, you'd get scalded. It was fun and exciting! If you want new and nice, that will cost you anywhere from 5k-16k depending on size/location.

So, after your rent + utilities (3500 a month) you should be able to get by easily on 100 rmb a day assuming you're cooking at home or eating Chinese food. If you're eating at expat places you will be paying 5-10x higher prices for a meal. Then another 3k for going out and random expenses. You can live extremely comfortably on 10k, just don't expect to feel like you're living in a western or normal country, because you aren't. Including rent/bills I spent less than 6k a month for a majority of my time in Beijing and of course most Chinese live on less than 1k.
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post #83 of 101
9/15/12 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Barrington View Post

Made a go doing what? Legitimate business? Managing factories in Shenzhen? That's not what I'm referring to. I'm referring to TESL teachers, guest house owners, sexpats, bar owners, beach bums, etc. That's the lions share of expats you run into outside of the big cities and, by and large, they're losers.
what of running a restaurant or bar is there to sneer at ? or being in hospitality ? or simply relaxing and retiring ?
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post #84 of 101
9/15/12 at 7:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trompe le Monde View Post

what of running a restaurant or bar is there to sneer at ? or being in hospitality ? or simply relaxing and retiring ?

I have nothing but respect for people who work in the service and hospitality industry. What I'm referring to are expats who open up a crappy guesthouse so they can fund their "endless vacation" in Phuket.

As far as retiring, I don't like the idea of my tax dollars paying the pension of some 61 year old guy living in Isan with his 25 year old Thai "wife".

This may sound like sour grapes, but anyone who has travelled extensively through Asia is probably nodding their head in agreement.
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post #85 of 101
9/15/12 at 9:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomerJ View Post


Do you mind elaborating on that 10k budget?
I looked at some cost of living websites (geared toward white collar expats I assume) and the figures started at 10k for a basic apartment..
I'm curious in the remote chance that I take a position in Beijing.

 

You'll find that the prices for apartments of similar standard varies VERY widely. The apartments that you refer to are in the typical expat areas, in the Central business district, close to all the large corporations and drinking areas. If Beijing would be New York, CBD would be Manhattan(in the very loosest sense). I spend 2k on rent for a room in a 2 bedroom (about 70sqm) for a decent apartment. I like to cook so I eat at home quite a lot so I guess food is another 2-3k and then I bike a lot(usually faster than taxi/subway) so I save cash on that. then you have entertainment, which is another 2-3k a month, but that's what screws most people over. They go out and party every night and then they run out of money. 

 

I would also like to point out that ESL teachers here in China make quite a good living, compared to the white collar people here. Many of my friends are white collar workers and few people break 20k/month. Of course there are those that do, but they aren't the norm, and that's working 40-60h/week. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eason View Post

You can find decent (by Chinese standards) apts for ~3k in Beijing, at least you could 3 years ago. I had a 80m2 in Si Tong Qiao right on the subway and bus routes in Hai Dian district for 3k, it was an old Chinese style apt which had no heating, but that's standard in China. My brother lived in Chao Yang district and had a somewhat smaller place for around 2.5k. It's all to your standards, of course. My apt had 1 water valve with manual gas so you had to turn it on and all the water would be that temperature. If you showered and someone tried to turn on the kitchen tap, you'd get scalded. It was fun and exciting! If you want new and nice, that will cost you anywhere from 5k-16k depending on size/location.
So, after your rent + utilities (3500 a month) you should be able to get by easily on 100 rmb a day assuming you're cooking at home or eating Chinese food. If you're eating at expat places you will be paying 5-10x higher prices for a meal. Then another 3k for going out and random expenses. You can live extremely comfortably on 10k, just don't expect to feel like you're living in a western or normal country, because you aren't. Including rent/bills I spent less than 6k a month for a majority of my time in Beijing and of course most Chinese live on less than 1k.

 

Eason, DAMN, you had bad luck with your apartment. Even 3 years ago, apartments where a lot better than that. Also, no heating is NOT standard in Beijing. Here is how it works. ALL apartments north of Shanghai have central heating(it's government controlled, so there is a set date when it turns on and off), and many of them have AC/s in addition to that. So most likely you got screwed by the landlord, who didn't want to fix the heating. Your water system also sounds horrible. Nothing like the apartments that I've experienced(I've moved 12 times here in China). 

 

As for feeling like living in a western city, you'll never feel that unless you never leave your apartment/villa, but to me that's part of the charm. 

 

To all the people indirectly calling me a looser for being a teacher, cloud.gif

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post #86 of 101
9/15/12 at 11:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximator View Post

Eason, DAMN, you had bad luck with your apartment. Even 3 years ago, apartments where a lot better than that. Also, no heating is NOT standard in Beijing. Here is how it works. ALL apartments north of Shanghai have central heating(it's government controlled, so there is a set date when it turns on and off), and many of them have AC/s in addition to that. So most likely you got screwed by the landlord, who didn't want to fix the heating. Your water system also sounds horrible. Nothing like the apartments that I've experienced(I've moved 12 times here in China). 

Perhaps Eason was living in a Hutong? I believe you have to sort your own heating for them things. Using a wood burning stove or electric heater or something.

When I've lived in apartments north of Shanghai, the heating and hot water have always been great. No problems at my current location.
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post #87 of 101
9/16/12 at 12:00am
Yeah I mean it had public/central heating. You could put your hands on the pipes directly and it would just feel warm to your skin. I called public services and they just said it's an old building so that's what you get. We kept a thermometer in the kitchen, most days it was 11C. Better than 0-2C outside, but still awful.
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post #88 of 101
9/16/12 at 6:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eason View Post

Yeah I mean it had public/central heating. You could put your hands on the pipes directly and it would just feel warm to your skin. I called public services and they just said it's an old building so that's what you get. We kept a thermometer in the kitchen, most days it was 11C. Better than 0-2C outside, but still awful.

Why didn't you just come home, player?
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post #89 of 101
9/16/12 at 6:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Barrington View Post

Why didn't you just come home, player?

I wanted enough work experience to get into a grad program and get a job in HK so I put up with it
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post #90 of 101
9/16/12 at 8:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Barrington View Post

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If you're a non-white collar expat (i.e. you don't live abroad working as a legitimate business person) you either:
A) Are a loser
B) Will become a loser
C) Will forever be surrounded by losers.
As someone who has spent a plenty of time in Asia, believe me, this is true. Say whatever you want, it's still true.
Preach on, Lord B! I take it you visit my homeland quite often too since you made references to Isan and Thailand.

It boggles my mind that everyone thinks all 'farang' are wealthy. There's some low life scumbags who traveled across the world to marry a woman who's 1/3 his age to treat her like a slave.

Like you, I respect those who work in hospitality. I simply don't have the patience to put up with all that nonsense. My aunt has a condo in BKK, and her neighbors are from Chicago....man, they're some nasty and rude folks. I snapped on them one day when I went back home....good times.
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