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post #46 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagel View Post


I spent 2 years in China after graduating from college in 2009 and thoroughly enjoyed living there. There are a lot of things to enjoy about China other than its facilitation of alcoholism and lechery. It seems a lot of people don't like China or Chinese people though (it's all a matter of opinion). The problem is that while the people who don't like China but don't have major character flaws just leave China, the people who hate China but love booze/prostitutes/laziness all stick around because there is nowhere else better to pursue their habits.

So if you like China and want to live there, but you also want to have a social life, you have to choose between fully assimilating into Chinese culture or hanging out with transients and bums who have no Chinese friends and speak little Chinese. There doesn't seem to be much in between. Assimilating is kind of a bitch, in that you have to marry someone.


Yup, exactly. That's how/why I learned Mandarin.
post #47 of 100
Assimilating by marrying someone is basically what I did too... but I work in a company with 40% foreigers too and most of them are good guys. Can we agree that most of the above comments generally apply only to the English teachers and not to people working in most other industries here? Based on my observation in Beijing, English teacher ratio is about 90-95% trash vs normal people, but the professionals are only about 15-20% trash.
post #48 of 100
I strongly believe that calling another person "trash" is not very "stylish".
post #49 of 100
Yeah but being frank both saves time and rustles jimmies.
post #50 of 100

Trash, FILTH, creepers, degenerates, sexpats, whatever. But these terms aren't really all that inaccurate to describe the type of guys who come to a foreign country, sleep with their students, hire underage hookers, and get pissed off at the locals because they don't speak English. If you're here then you must know the type, and last month or so it was a big issue in the media when some British guy got piss drunk and tried to rape a Chinese girl on the side of the road.

 

I used to know a few guys like this when I first came to China and hung out with that crowd since they were the easiest group of English speaking people I could find. My network is quite a bit better now though, thank god...

post #51 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by vimkgt View Post

Trash, FILTH, creepers, degenerates, sexpats, whatever. But these terms aren't really all that inaccurate to describe the type of guys who come to a foreign country, sleep with their students, hire underage hookers, and get pissed off at the locals because they don't speak English. If you're here then you must know the type, and last month or so it was a big issue in the media when some British guy got piss drunk and tried to rape a Chinese girl on the side of the road.

I used to know a few guys like this when I first came to China and hung out with that crowd since they were the easiest group of English speaking people I could find. My network is quite a bit better now though, thank god...

That's often expat communities in all countries. I try to avoid them.
post #52 of 100
My brother posted this on his fb, copied from a Chinese law commentator's blog:
Quote:
As a 15 year expat who has lived in several Chinese cities (and with no kids by the way) I would say the main problem is overall the quality of life is getting lower and lower. Other then having Starbucks, Walmart and Ikea, a lot of things which made life in China enjoyable or at least bearable have actually deteriorated rather then improved.

- The pollution just gets worse and worse. Leave China for a day or even go to the countryside for a wake-up call. In Beijing, most "overcast cast" days are actually simply pollution. Its off the charts. - Speaking Chinese and living full time in China, accelerates this process as you are able to come closer to the culture with a deeper understanding and at a faster rate. Unfortunately, whats underneath is not very pretty. China today is (sadly) fast becoming rotten to the core.
- Doing business, especially when its your own money also accelerates the process. The constant stream of headaches, mafan, chabaduo, ineptitude and dishonesty just makes things all the more unpleasant and challenging.
- Traffic is out of control. A 15 minute trip can take two hours at the wrong time of day. And getting taxi's in Beijing is now much more difficult.
- We have all known for a long time that the food is poisonous. There is a new food scandal every day. At least the Chinese themselves are now waking up themselves to this fact which is positive.
- Unless you use Baidu, Tudou, ren ren and weibo, the internet is completely useless without a VPN.
- For Beijing, the weather is horrible. Short/non-existent spring and fall and very hot summer/cold winter. Shanghai's humidity and lack of heat in the winter is not that much better. This isn't anyone's fault but over time it does get to some people.
- Attitudes towards foreigners started changing around the time of the Beijing Olympics and have continued to deteriorate. Previously the common man had a certain polite curiosity and open mindedness about the world, even regarding topics they disagreed on. Now its become more of an arrogant "chip on the shoulder" which leaves us with the impression something is going to boil over sooner or later.
- Rents are out of control in most major cities. Landlords generally are still horrible to deal with and renters rights are non-existent. Purchasing is an option only for the rich. And that new complex you live in which was built only a few years ago has now become an un-maintained falling apart slum.
- Costs of labor (and just about everything else) are skyrocketing and good labor is hard to find. 15 years later and most people still have an attitude of "chaobaduo" + how much are you gonna pay me? At some point it doesn't seem worth it.
- Most Chinese today have become focused exclusively and only on one thing: money. This supersedes face, national pride, family and just about everything else. The end game is always about money. It was not always this way. Unfortunately, the longer you are here, the more ethics, professionalism and honesty become alien concepts to you which is not necessarily a positive thing.
- Laws and regulations remain confusing and frustrating and may have gotten even more confusing since this "China has laws" idea started taking root (something which is often promoted on this blog and understandably since the authors are lawyers - no ill ill meaning intended). The reality is, rule of law in China is still mostly a myth. All Chinese know that law in China still remains primarily a tool to be selectively used by the authorities when needed and when its to their advantage.

The more you localize and the longer you are here, the more you become somewhat Chinese. Which means you start to hate many of the same things they hate themselves. The only difference is we discuss it openly and with a foreign passport, we can pack up a leave, something even most mainlanders aspire to. Most of us came here because we loved China and Chinese culture (and likely still do). But at some point, enough is enough. Couple that with the fact that many things foreigners hoped would gradually improve have either not improved at the rate we had hoped or instead actually deteriorated and it makes for a very depressing outlook.

However, with that said, I think China's greatest success has been in creating a perception that China is "the place to be." Which means yes, a new stream of naive foreigners will continue to arrive every day.

The last two paragraphs are right on the money. My only addendum is that I don't know why it took him 15 years to figure this out, it took me 1.5. I moved to China right after the Olympics thinking everything would be improving; instead everything deteriorated.
post #53 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eason View Post

My brother posted this on his fb, copied from a Chinese law commentator's blog:
The last two paragraphs are right on the money. My only addendum is that I don't know why it took him 15 years to figure this out, it took me 1.5. I moved to China right after the Olympics thinking everything would be improving; instead everything deteriorated.

It only took me a few days to realise that Beijing is not the city for me. It's the place where the big international airport is, and that's pretty much it. I do have some Chinese friends in Beijing, but they'll usually come and visit me, not the other way round.

I started in Zhuhai, hanging with other expats, quickly realised that many of them are sex mad, drunken wasters, fucking their students or anything else that was convenient. Moved onto Hangzhou for a year at a good school. Enjoyed my time there. And now I'm in Xilinhot, Inner Mongolia. been here almost two years, and intend to stay for the foreseeable future. I'm quite happy to live without Ikea, Starbucks and Walmart, and in a place where I feel completely safe, respected and air is still clean. and has plenty of fake Apple Stores..LOL. I can even leave my bicycle unlocked, and know there's a very high likelihood that it will still be there when I come back. Certainly can't do that in the UK. AFAIK there's only one other expat in Xilinhot, and he's not a sex crazed drunk.
Edited by MikeDT - 8/16/12 at 8:50pm
post #54 of 100

Teachers are respected in China.

post #55 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by imunique View Post

Teachers are respected in China.

Oh it's really drummed into students, love and respect your teachers. There's Teacher's Day, propaganda, etc. The level of student discipline at my current state middle school was a real eye-opener when I first arrived.

We've got this, five stories high on the school building.

"I want to be an amazing Chinese,"

That's the view from my bedroom window..



"Love your teacher."

BTW we got the new term starting on Monday, and all new students will be doing two weeks military drill and training.

School campus last year, students doing drill with the PLA.


However things can get interesting occasionally
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13592514

I know most of them in that BBC picture. Those very same students starting asking me in early August 2011, what the hell was going on in my own country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_Riots
Edited by MikeDT - 8/16/12 at 10:18pm
post #56 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeDT View Post

It only took me a few days to realise that Beijing is not the city for me. It's the place where the big international airport is, and that's pretty much it. I do have some Chinese friends in Beijing, but they'll usually come and visit me, not the other way round.
I started in Zhuhai, hanging with other expats, quickly realised that many of them are sex mad, drunken wasters, fucking their students or anything else that was convenient. Moved onto Hangzhou for a year at a good school. Enjoyed my time there. And now I'm in Xilinhot, Inner Mongolia. been here almost two years, and intend to stay for the foreseeable future. I'm quite happy to live without Ikea, Starbucks and Walmart, and in a place where I feel completely safe, respected and air is still clean. and has plenty of fake Apple Stores..LOL. I can even leave my bicycle unlocked, and know there's a very high likelihood that it will still be there when I come back. Certainly can't do that in the UK. AFAIK there's only one other expat in Xilinhot, and he's not a sex crazed drunk.
When was this/what school was it? My friends from there, going to visit next year.
post #57 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeDT View Post

Oh it's really drummed into students, love and respect your teachers. There's Teacher's Day, propaganda, etc. The level of student discipline at my current state middle school was a real eye-opener when I first arrived.
We've got this, five stories high on the school building.

"I want to be an amazing Chinese,"
That's the view from my bedroom window..


"Love your teacher."
BTW we got the new term starting on Monday, and all new students will be doing two weeks military drill and training.
School campus last year, students doing drill with the PLA.

However things can get interesting occasionally
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13592514

I know most of them in that BBC picture. Those very same students starting asking me in early August 2011, what the hell was going on in my own country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_Riots

I have several friends who were teachers in North America (NA) and UK who are now teachers in China and NE Asia. All have been astonished by the level of respect accorded to teachers... and even uni students. To be educated is to be human. Of course this is a sweeping generalization, but in NA and UK the students abuse the teachers and schools. Not only do they study more, but in Asia students also perform janitorial duty by actually sweeping and mopping their classrooms and picking up the litter from the school yard. If you're responsible for cleaning it you're less inclined to vandalize it. Asia ain't perfect, but the appreciation for education is genuine.
post #58 of 100
Interesting thread.

I have been in the States for about 11 years and is moving to Beijing to work starting next month.

I guess it's because I grew up in Taiwan so that I find Beijing to be somewhat familiar to me, at least to the extend of living environment. It really assembles the old Taiwan but with all the modern buildings.

I speak fluent Chinese and English and I hope this will make me a little different.

I also agree that majority of the Chinese nowadays in the big cities (this is the part that I know of) are only looking at money instead of anything else, which is kind of sad, but that's exactly what I expected especially when you have billions of other people competing with you.
post #59 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Humphrey Appleby View Post

When was this/what school was it? My friends from there, going to visit next year.

Gateway Language Village, it's a private rather expensive English only training school. Most students are under-graduate or post-graduate level.
http://www.glvchina.com/
Alibaba and Tencent often send their staff there for English training. I can definately recommend this school as been on the level and OK. I was there 2010. And the teachers don't fuck the students AFAIK.
post #60 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by curzon View Post

I have several friends who were teachers in North America (NA) and UK who are now teachers in China and NE Asia. All have been astonished by the level of respect accorded to teachers... and even uni students. To be educated is to be human. Of course this is a sweeping generalization, but in NA and UK the students abuse the teachers and schools. Not only do they study more, but in Asia students also perform janitorial duty by actually sweeping and mopping their classrooms and picking up the litter from the school yard. If you're responsible for cleaning it you're less inclined to vandalize it. Asia ain't perfect, but the appreciation for education is genuine.

Yeh, the school is always immaculate. Students are cleaning the windows and everything. Although sometimes I do think the students are doing too much, school day starts at 6.30, lessons start at 7.30, day finishes 21.30 after evening self study, 6 days a week, Monday to Saturday, 3 hour lunch break though. I'm sure the whole curriculum aimed at getting good results in exams.

Bad eyesight can real problem for many students in China though. I've just completed a 4 week English summer camp at another middle school in a neighbouring town. A couple of the students just couldn't see and read my Powerpoints and blackboard, even though they sat near the front.

The school has just completed a massive redecoration and refurbishment this summer, inside and out, ready for their diamond anniversary (60 years) next year. It's actually a Mongolian school, with mainly Mongolian rather than Han students. So I'm sure that means special status and real money is spent on the school, same seems to go for other state schools in Xilinhot and Inner Mongolia. I've visited other state schools in Hebei, Guangdong and Zhejiang provinces, and some of them are just horrible, nothing works, student punctually is very poor, etc. I had a couple of American friends come to visit last year, who'd been teaching at a Hebei middle school, They were actually shocked when they saw my school, "This school is beautiful!"...one of them said.
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