Men's watch at the $5K mark? - Page 7

Originally Posted by Cant kill da Rooster 

You will find a lot of people disagree with this notion. Don't let it discourage you from buying a watch under 5k. Blanket statements like this are misleading.
Perhaps you meant to apply this to the new manufacturer's price. In that case I would mostly agree with you but even then, not in all cases.

Originally Posted by TimelesStyle 

What do you mean by "new manufacturer"? I think you may be using a different definition of "manufacture" than the quoted poster.

Originally Posted by Cant kill da Rooster 

I am guessing his comments are referring to the retailer's listed price. If that's the case, then I agree with him in that they are often way overpriced. That was what I meant.

Originally Posted by Cant kill da Rooster 

I understand but I think he was saying that anything under 5k is not worth buying. What WIS doesn't admire Patek or AP but to call a watch crap because it's a Longines, IWC, Nomos or Omega is elitist. If the OP is looking for a watch under 5k, the response shouldn't be, you need to spend more.

Originally Posted by TimelesStyle 

he's saying that getting an Omega for $3k is a much better value than buying a Cartier (with the ETA movement) for $5k because you won't get more quality by spending the extra $2k. It was a question of value for the money, not the overall quality of one brand vs. another.

Originally Posted by TimelesStyle 

A few notable exceptions (to the $5k manufacture observation, not the value observation), in my opinion, are the most basic Rolexes, some uncomplicated Zeniths (the Captain on leather retails for $5k exactly) and the more basic Co-axial Omegas (if you call them true manufacture movements).

Originally Posted by ant702 

I dont subsrcibe to the so called "MANUFACTURE THEME," Even Rolex uses ETA for Tudor! That's a inside joke being played, for your VANITY! I agree 101% with ~b~ I know I'm new here, but has anyone ever talked about the cost of owner- ship of this stuff? If your rich, then it does not apply, obviously! You gotta get'em serviced sometime, and when you do, trust me you will not like the prices! And of course you can reject the service, but still be on the hook for charges! 

Originally Posted by Cant kill da Rooster 

You will find a lot of people disagree with this notion. Don't let it discourage you from buying a watch under 5k. Blanket statements like this are misleading.
Perhaps you meant to apply this to the new manufacturer's price. In that case I would mostly agree with you but even then, not in all cases.

Originally Posted by TimelesStyle 

Ok, now I think I understand the disconnect. In watchmaking, the term "manufacture" (with an "e" on the end) refers to watch companies making the movements in-house, vs. outsourcing that to a movement maker (ETA, a Swatch subsidiary, is by far the biggest). Companies known for producing their own movements are Rolex, JLC and Patek, though there are a number of others and even more who make some movements in-house, like IWC, Omega or Cartier.
The point of the previous poster was that at $5k you cannot find many with in-house movements but at the same time that's too much money to pay for a watch with a mass-produced ETA base movement. Therefore, in his opinion, it's sort of an awkward price point and one should either go lower (if buying something with an outsourced movement) or higher (in order to have access to a wide range of manufacture movements). Particularly for those buying stainless steel pieces, I tend to lean this way myself (unless you want a very basic Rolex or certain Omegas).

Originally Posted by Cant kill da Rooster 

I understand but I think he was saying that anything under 5k is not worth buying. What WIS doesn't admire Patek or AP but to call a watch crap because it's a Longines, IWC, Nomos or Omega is elitist. If the OP is looking for a watch under 5k, the response shouldn't be, you need to spend more.

Originally Posted by ~ B ~ 

Thanks for concurring. ETA movements are good for what they are - simply workhorse machines. You are right that very few people consider the cost of ownership of a watch. On a mid-grade brand like a JLC for a simple 3 hand watch, the servicing is 650 CHF every 4-5 years, which adds up to many thousands over a lifetime. Servicing for complicated pieces like tourbillons would be eye-popping to most. This is mainly because of the brand monopoly on servicing knowhow, plus the fear that external watchmakers will damage or swap parts in a watch. Sometimes I agree it is more hassle than happiness, owning several expensive watches.
Of course the ideal is both to have a manufacture movement coupled with inexpensive or even free servicing. Such a thing exists, believe it or not

Originally Posted by TimelesStyle 

Not sure I agree that JLC is "mid-grade" nor would I agree that it costs that much to service for routine service. I had my Patek (simple three-hand plus date automatic) overhauled for about $800 by an authorized watchmaker so I'd imagine a JLC, particularly a manual wind version, would run a bit less.

Originally Posted by jeff13007 

Well i can see where it adds up actually. Lets say you take your $800 overhaul then add in the costs of new watch straps, I used my brand new Vacheron Constantin for about 2 years before part of the strap broke, not a vital part but more along the lines of a annoyance that bothers you when you put it on and to replace it would be about $400 dollars. Another example is i got a new 5296G a few weeks ago and the salesman told me its not uncommon to need to replace the strap every 3-4 years and to just wait till a replacement strap is needed to replace the regular strap with a deployment clasp. I must state that this is if you are buying straps from the actual brand and there may be cheaper alternatives but for arguments sake lets say we factor in these costs. They do add up over time if you think about it..... Then again you did say it was "an overhaul" how much would a regular 4-5 year service be? As i stated before both of these are still within the first 5ish year gap before servicing so Im not actually sure about the "regular servicing" price but i would imagine it would be at least several hundreds of dollars
Edit: Btw agree with you completely about JLC they are probably the most underrated of the high end manufacturers. I believe they often get put into a "lower" category because they have a lower price point and thats nothing against their movements its just because Patek, VC, ALS, Breguet etc all use precious metals while JLC has some in stainless steel

Originally Posted by TimelesStyle 

I don't know what a "regular" service would be; in the 7 years since I've owned my PP it's needed service twice because it simply stopped running... As for the straps, mine is a bit of an unusual circumstance; I wear a 5065 and while the tropical straps are cheaper than the leather there isn't a "generic" version out there.
I think the thing with JLC is more that they make a greater number of "basic" watches vs. highly complicated. As far as I know, everyone except Lange makes at least one stainless piece though none of the ultra-high-end makers do a stainless dress watch as JLC does. Or maybe they just haven't invested the same in marketing as the others so there isn't the same mystique around them.