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RLBL - Installing Working Buttonholes - Page 5

post #61 of 81
Just to be clear - you're making sense here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by yywwyy View Post

I'm speaking from my experience. In general, alterations tailors mess up a lot more than do bespoke tailors when given more difficult, laborious jobs. After a few mess-ups I never went back to alterations tailors, and have been happy since. For things like handsewn button-holes, I really suggest that one uses a bespoke tailor. I won't say that there are no good alterations tailors who could do this, but I just found that in general (as expected), bespoke tailors are more skilled and take more pride in their work & reputation. Many of my friends and some members on this forum agree to this from experience. That's my conclusion for the whole bespoke tailor argument, of which I'm not sure why it is controversial to some at all.
.....

Not here - the guy's not lacking logic. Sorry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yywwyy View Post

...
I was saying that the guy lacks logic because he's calling me out for not fully sticking with the "bespoke tailor" argument. However, it should be clear to anyone that if available, using the in-house RL tailor is the best bet in this case. It doesn't mean I don't stick by my original stance that bespoke tailor is more likely to get the job done w/o problems.
post #62 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by imatlas View Post


Not sure if srs?
It's in how the lining is set in the sleeve. Lower end RTW (with non-functional buttonholes) will often have a sleeve lining that is fully attached around the wrist. "working buttonhole ready" sleeves the lining will already have the split to accommodate the two sides that button together.
I didn't explain that very well, but it's pretty obvious when you see it. It's not at all uncommon to see a garment described as "ready for working buttonholes" or similar; I believe this is what they are referring to. It doesn't rule out having buttonholes put in, but the sleeve lining has to be reworked in addition to the holes themselves, adding to the complexity (and the risk that someone will screw it up).

 

Why would comments from someone who works exclusively with bespoke artisans be taking seriously here is beyond me.

 

And yes, you are correct


Edited by chogall - 6/6/12 at 2:43pm
post #63 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by imatlas View Post

Not sure if srs?

It's in how the lining is set in the sleeve. Lower end RTW (with non-functional buttonholes) will often have a sleeve lining that is fully attached around the wrist. "working buttonhole ready" sleeves the lining will already have the split to accommodate the two sides that button together.

I didn't explain that very well, but it's pretty obvious when you see it. It's not at all uncommon to see a garment described as "ready for working buttonholes" or similar; I believe this is what they are referring to. It doesn't rule out having buttonholes put in, but the sleeve lining has to be reworked in addition to the holes themselves, adding to the complexity (and the risk that someone will screw it up).

Why would comments from someone who works exclusively with bespoke artisans be taking seriously here is beyond me.

And yes, you are correct; cheaper RTW jackets cannot have working buttonhole added without narrowing the cuff by 4" or more.

...

AFAIK, Foo was demonstrating his usual obtuseness. If he doesn't know how RTW is made in a way that isn't intended to take working buttonholes, then he might wish to refrain from commenting on how RTW can be made to accommodate working buttonholes. Bespoke techniques are rather beside the point.

You, on the other hand, have misunderstood my point, implied that Foo's word should be accepted without question, and have made a rather preposterous claim: that a sleeve must be narrowed to accept working buttons. That makes no sense, and has nothing to do with what I meant about how sleeves may need reworking.
post #64 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by imatlas View Post


...
AFAIK, Foo was demonstrating his usual obtuseness. If he doesn't know how RTW is made in a way that isn't intended to take working buttonholes, then he might wish to refrain from commenting on how RTW can be made to accommodate working buttonholes. Bespoke techniques are rather beside the point.
You, on the other hand, have misunderstood my point, implied that Foo's word should be accepted without question, and have made a rather preposterous claim: that a sleeve must be narrowed to accept working buttons. That makes no sense, and has nothing to do with what I meant about how sleeves may need reworking.

 

My apologies, I wasn't being clear.  I was talking about those jackets without working sleeves build-in; most tailors won't add working button holes in them, and if they do, its going to be a major surgery with slim chance of success.

post #65 of 81
I don’t understand if you want working button hole the you buy a jacket with working button hole .Its RTW jacket why bother spending extras ?? Save your money for next time to buy a jacket with working button hole.
My$0.02
post #66 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by md2010 View Post

I don’t understand if you want working button hole the you buy a jacket with working button hole .Its RTW jacket why bother spending extras ?? Save your money for next time to buy a jacket with working button hole.
My$0.02

People's left and right arms aren't always equal in length.
post #67 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraiche View Post


People's left and right arms aren't always equal in length.


+1

 

Also, shortening the sleeves at the shoulders, which is necessary with working buttonholes, is often almost or just as expensive as getting the buttonholes made.

post #68 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by md2010 View Post

I don’t understand if you want working button hole the you buy a jacket with working button hole .Its RTW jacket why bother spending extras ?? Save your money for next time to buy a jacket with working button hole.
My$0.02

While it is RTW, I think a Ralph Lauren Black Label suit is certainly nice enough to justify spending a little extra on working button holes if that is what you want.

post #69 of 81
I purchased a RLBL suit from the mansion a couple of years ago and figured I would have them tailor it. I requested working button holes but asked if they would do a basted fit on the sleeves before installing the buttonholes as it was my first experience there. The results were good news/bad news. First I put the pants on and my requested slight break was pretty full. Then I try on the jacket and sleeves are way too long. I also notice to my horror that the buttons are attached and I'm about to get really pissed until I notice that they are merely sewn on (non-functioning). I was probably more upset when I exited the changing booth and was told how great the suit looked when everything was too long. I had them redo the job sans the button holes as I lost confidence and didn't appreciate their attempted sales job on the fit but they did get it right the second time around.
post #70 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harper View Post

I purchased a RLBL suit from the mansion a couple of years ago and figured I would have them tailor it. I requested working button holes but asked if they would do a basted fit on the sleeves before installing the buttonholes as it was my first experience there. The results were good news/bad news. First I put the pants on and my requested slight break was pretty full. Then I try on the jacket and sleeves are way too long. I also notice to my horror that the buttons are attached and I'm about to get really pissed until I notice that they are merely sewn on (non-functioning). I was probably more upset when I exited the changing booth and was told how great the suit looked when everything was too long. I had them redo the job sans the button holes as I lost confidence and didn't appreciate their attempted sales job on the fit but they did get it right the second time around.

 

This.

 

Definitely using Bhambi's. I'll be getting my velvet jacket back from them tomorrow - hopefully they do an amazing job, considering it's $175 to take in the stomach and do the jacket cuffs.

 

If all goes well, I have no hesitation bringing my RLBL to get altered & working button-holes installed.

post #71 of 81
Thread Starter 

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post #72 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

In-house alteration tailors at designer boutiques and high-end department stores are notoriously bad, often representing second or third rate talent.

That's not always true. The in-house tailors at L'Uomo in Montreal are fantastic. I've seen some really good work being done at Nordstrom in Seattle. But you are right, they often suck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imatlas View Post

Not sure if srs?
It's in how the lining is set in the sleeve. Lower end RTW (with non-functional buttonholes) will often have a sleeve lining that is fully attached around the wrist. "working buttonhole ready" sleeves the lining will already have the split to accommodate the two sides that button together.

It's not just the lining. The cloth underlay of the vent is too small in many sleeves- it's often only just over an inch- you really need around 2" to do a nice job. Some manufacturers make the underlay big enough, and split the lining in the right place, so that you could, if you wanted, add working buttonholes, otherwise you would have to narrow the sleeve a bit to make up the difference in the underlay, as someone alluded to (though it's not 4") and fiddle with the lining which is a bit tricky.
post #73 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefferyd View Post

The cloth underlay of the vent is too small in many sleeves- it's often only just over an inch- you really need around 2" to do a nice job. Some manufacturers make the underlay big enough, and split the lining in the right place, so that you could, if you wanted, add working buttonholes, otherwise you would have to narrow the sleeve a bit to make up the difference in the underlay, as someone alluded to (though it's not 4") and fiddle with the lining which is a bit tricky.

I've had extra fabric successfully added/grafted to the underlay to get it to what's needed to finish the sleeves w/o having to narrow them. biggrin.gif

2'' sounds like a lot though. Wouldn't the underlay just need to be wide enough to double up the fabric just a few mm past where the buttonholes start/end, i.e. the top of a buttonhole? Isn't that point (top of a buttonhole) to the edge of the sleeve/vent is closer to 1.5''?
post #74 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Bourne View Post

Wouldn't the underlay just need to be wide enough to double up the fabric just a few mm past where the buttonholes start/end, i.e. the top of a buttonhole? Isn't that point (top of a buttonhole) to the edge of the sleeve/vent is closer to 1.5''?

You need a seam allowance as well.
post #75 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by silvercitynyc View Post

photo.JPGphoto (1).JPG

 

That's some pretty good looking fabric.  Unfortunately its on RLBL. :(

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